How "long" is "long range"

[Hunter308]

How \"long\" is \"long range\"

Being this is the "Long Range Hunting" forum, I was wondering if there was a generally accepted definition of what "long" range means. Is it anything over 500 yards? 300 yards? Sorry if this has been asked before but I'm new to the forum and didnt't find anything on this.

Hunter 308

 

[Fotis]

Re: How \"long\" is \"long range\"

In my opinion anything beyond 300 yds.

 

[Ian M]

Re: How \"long\" is \"long range\"

Hunter,
This question has been beaten to death here and from past experience has the potential for wasting valuable space taking us away from our primary topic - how to do long range shooting and hunting. Long range for you might be whatever your skill, confidence level, hunting experience and equipment can handle. This leads to degree of accuracy, degree of confidence, ethics, how many times you can hit a paper plate at X yards, what energy the bullet has to deliver to kill a critter, where the bullet must strike, are practice shots allowed, which scope does the best job, no way you should shoot with a weak little .308 Winchester and on and on.

There is no comprehensive answer to your question, we are all individuals. Suffice to say that most guys who hang-out here want the capability to kill cleanly out to 500, with the extension to 6, 7 or 800 as they get more capability and confidence.

Please do a SEARCH on that topic and you will find lots of opinions. You will also note that there is a group of folks who enjoy the challenge of shooting much longer than we do, they have a site that you could find by a websearch of ultra-long range hunting I believe. Do not wish to dampen your enthusiasm, it is a legitimate question but one that we have worked over a lot.

 

[ricka0]

Good Question How \"long\" is \"long range\"

Good question Hunter308 & I agree with POP
Excellent answer Ian_M - but I'm sure some folks will disagree /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
I was flamed on another forum for asking questions about building a gun for 500 - 750 yards - this forum gave helpful advice and encouragement.
Even tho will we never get 100% agreement, I'd like to see general consensus posted.
I'd go with
<ul type="square">
[*]300 - 500 as long range
[*]501 - 800 as [need adjective here] really long range???
[*]800-1100 as ultra long range
[*]and for those guys who talk about 2,500 yards - insane long range.
[/list]

 

[Varmint Hunter]

Re: Good Question How \"long\" is \"long range\"

Many years ago when I started shooting varmints, long range was any shots out past 250yds. Yep, factory guns,factory ammo, small targets, and limited experience made these shots particularely rewarding.

Within a few years I was shooting handloads and more accurate factory rifles. What was long range only a few years earlier became average and long range meant shots had to exceed 400yds.

Today, with custom built rifles, handloaded match ammo using only the best components, and 20 years of experience, long range has a totally new meaning. Shots that exceed a 1/2 mile were unthinkable but are now made with some regularity.

Every year I look to push the envelope a little farther and the meaning of long range seems to change constantly. So how do we define long range - WE CAN"T /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[Hired Gun]

Re: Good Question How \"long\" is \"long range\"

Shooting a rocket at the moon or mars and hitting it. Those early shots were calculated. Meaning they didn't take off and drive there like you would in a car or boat. So it is with our dumb bullets. If your calculations are correct you will strike your target. For me anything over 300 yards starts to require some calculation on my part or I will miss. The farther the yardage the bigger the unknown variables can really mess you up.

 

[Ian M]

Re: Good Question How \"long\" is \"long range\"

Varmint Hunter,
Great point - we can't! How about a standing offhand kill at 35 yards with my flintlock on a gopher that is just peeking out of his hole. That is a hell of a long shot. How about a running kill on a coyote as he blasts across the prairie at 190 yards. That is a long kill for most guys that I know. How about a mulie standing on the edge of a ravine at 783 yards and my 180 Accubond dumps him in his tracks - might be long for me but not long for the 1500 yard shooters.
Shooting long should be about using knowledge, skills and equipment to their maximum potential. That makes it vary since my rifle/scope/load and shooting ability might not enable clean kills as far as yours.
My friends and I "hurl" bullets at far-off rocks and steel plates to see if we can hit them. We do not do that at big game animals - we only shoot when we are confident that the bullet will kill. That means out to about 650 for the .308 rifles and 750-800 with the magnums. We put a lot of deer on the ground during a recent CWD cull and I know those numbers are realistic.

 

[Dave King]

Re: How \"long\" is \"long range\"

There is no single number, it's a series of numbers from a series of people, like Ian said, an individual thing. Sort of like asking if someone is tall..it's hard to find a start point but there is a point where all will agree. 5' might be tall to some folks but 8' is tall to everyone.


Here are a few previous threads about this same topic...

This is one from Dec 2004 where you (Hunter308) asked very nearly the same question.

http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=56676&amp;an=0&amp;page=2#56676



http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=1048&amp;an=0&amp;page=81#1048

http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=2781&amp;an=0&amp;page=68#2781

http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=8979&amp;an=0&amp;page=32#8979

There's more but I can't find them just now.

 

[ricka0]

Re: How \"long\" is \"long range\"

Really hostile responses to a good question - and plenty of invalid reasons you can't answer it.

Contrary to what Varmint hunter states - gun/ammo technology moves at a snails pace - we can update a web site daily - even computers with lightning changes take 2 generations ( 2 to 3 years) to become obsolete.

[ QUOTE ]
standing offhand kill at 35 yards with my flintlock

[/ QUOTE ]
absurd in the context of this forum - modern firearms and typically custom or semi-custom guns.

[ QUOTE ]
Sort of like asking if someone is tall

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually that's trivial to quantify and there is accurate published data on that. I wish long range was as easy to define.

Since this forum doesn't seem up to it I'll take a whack on my site. I'll make reasonable assumptions.

Thanks for posting those links Dave - there is good starting points. I like the 95% one shot kill idea. Another could be based on your longest kill and your typical bench shooting. Crow_mag shooting a mule deer at 1850m is beyond belief (but I believe him) -- insane ultra long range for me. (congrads! - amazing)
now I can only prey the 1st ammend haters or the brass resizing police don't get me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Brent]

Re: How \"long\" is \"long range\"

I think anything under 500-600 yards isn't much of a challenge in most situations I choose to shoot in given the kill zone size of a Moose. Probably getting into the long range zone about there too, but for most people, 300-400 yards is getting pretty long... And with the limited knowledge most hunters have of ballistics and other shooting skills specific to LR, I think I agree.

Dave said &gt;&gt;&gt; Here are a few previous threads about this same topic...

This is one from Dec 2004 where you (Hunter308) asked very nearly the same question.

http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=56676&amp;an=0&amp;page=2#56676


The obvious question, I guess I'll ask it - Is someone just stirring the pot here, Hunter308?

Your 1st and 2nd post here, same basic question.

 

[Ian M]

Re: How \"long\" is \"long range\"

Brent, Dave,
Unfortunately this stuff can drift us away from what I personally would like to read, which is good info on how to shoot long, how other guys are doing and what gear they are using. We seem to get one of these questions every so many months, not sure why because some people just don't get it that "LONG" is a personal thing, not a standard set by this site or any other.

Dave and Brent have shown that there is a lot of previous discussion on this topic, the use of the SEARCH button would have covered most of what we just offered. Looks like it is a waste of time to discuss it with guys who have their minds made up or just want to rabble-rouse.

As for "long", here is my personal favorite. I killed a ten foot Alaskan brown bear last year at 170 yards and the guides both said that it was a "hell of a long shot". For a running brownie with a .416 Rigby it was a long shot but I did not care about the distance - the sucker was coming at us as hard as he could and he needed stopping. The other hunter stopped his in an all-out charge at 28 yards and he figured that was about as close as he wanted one to get to. Story is coming out in the May issue of American Hunter (that is a bit of a plug, but what the hell).

I hope to practice my long shooting skills next week in Texas on predators, hogs and whatever - but I am not setting any minimums or maximums for the shooting. Making a clean kill with a T/C muzzleloader out at 300 yards on a big hog is long range shooting to me, I will read wind, apply elevation, employ the same long shooting marksmanship skills (natural point of aim etc.) that I use with my centerfires.

When I get back I will spin you guys some stories about hunting predators with the owner of Burnham Bros. calls and hogs on the fabled Nail ranch. Understand that yesterday there was over 400 hoggies on one of the winter wheat fields...

 

[ricka0]

Re: How \"long\" is \"long range\"

Good info - a formula is emerging. Brent and Crow_mag mention kill zone of the target as an essential parameter. For Varmits I will take more chances. Knowledge of ballistics (which you get from reading this forum) - what you can do on the range (perhaps 75% of that)

I think most of us can agree with Brent when he saz: [ QUOTE ]
for most people, 300-400 yards is getting pretty long...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm giving Hunter308 the benefit of the doubt - perhaps we didn't adequately flesh out the answer.

 

[41mag]

Re: How \"long\" is \"long range\"

Hey Ian,

Man I wish you the best of hunting over there on the Nail. There sure are some good critters running around that place.

We hunt mainly east Texas around the area of Madisonville. PLeanty of river bottom hogs in there to occupy our time with. I am new to the "long" range game but have shot pleanty of game out to 400 yds. To me that is about as far as need be around where we hunt. However, with the hogs available year round we are working on advancing our parimeters, to a couple hundered yards extra.

Hopefully by the end of this year we will be consistantly ringing the gong at true long ranges. If you check out the link below my name you can see a few of the critters we have gotten from our stompin grounds.

Good Luck,

 

[CanadianLefty]

Re: How \"long\" is \"long range\"

I got to agree with Brent.

Are you stirring the pot or maybe smoking it? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif