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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
AR15/10 Rifles
Hodgdon Varget .223 - Temperature Sensitive?
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<blockquote data-quote="Pdvdh" data-source="post: 1236960" data-attributes="member: 4191"><p><strong>Re: AR15 Running High ES and SD</strong></p><p></p><p>What I initially thought was temperature sensitive powder now appears to be high ES and SD in my AR15 - across three different powders. I'm beginning to think it is related to the AR15 gas gun. </p><p></p><p>Just so you don't think I'm a whiny butt based on minimal effort, the below data indicates some effort. I tried Varget, BL-(C)2, and Benchmark. Benchmark seemed to produce the lowest ES/SD so far, but only a little improvement compared to Varget and BL-(C)2. They're still higher than I'd prefer, even for plinking. </p><p></p><p>I tried the Rem 7 1/2 primers just once near the end of my testing, after reading that they're a good primer in 223 and also respected in competitive shoots. I ran 9 bullets across the chronographs and for 9 shots, it did show reduced ES and SD. Still nothing to brag about compared to bolt rifles, but enough improvement to spur my intention to rotate into the Rem 7 1/2 primers with my next purchase of primers.</p><p></p><p>What this effort demonstrated to me is the necessity of collecting more MVs than less, if you want to get a true idea of your loads ES/SD. Notice that the two lowest ES/SD were collected with only 4 MVs (4 shots). Simply not enough data to get the real picture of my ES/SDs. I think a minimum of ~12 MVs is required if a guy wants to have any confidence. Because look at the difference in ES/SD when 8 or fewer MV data were recorded. In a .223 - 12 shots is no big deal. In my 30 and 338 caliber magnums, it's a bigger deal in cost and wear & tear on my barrels, and ME. </p><p></p><p>Confidence in these chronographed MVs is very high. I shoot over a triplicate set of chronographs which provide me with 4 separate recorded MVs for each bullet fired. If the MV from any individual chronograph is off by more than 5fps from the other three readings, I don't use that anomalous MV. When you receive 4 MVs for each and every bullet fired, it's easy to identify which chronograph hiccuped, or puked out an erroneous MV.</p><p></p><p><u>Some of my AR-15 test data, 16" barrel, shooting the 60gr VMax bullet</u>:</p><p>26.9gr BL-(C)2, Fed 205s, _ ES=101, SD=<strong>34</strong> based on 6 MVs.</p><p>26.9gr BL-(C)2, Fed 205s, _ ES=47, SD=<strong>14</strong> based on 8 MVs.</p><p>26.9gr BL-(C)2, Fed 205s, _ ES=77, SD=<strong>28</strong> based on 8 MVs.</p><p>26.9gr BL-(C)2, Fed 205s, _ ES=81, SD=<strong>26</strong> based on 5 MVs.</p><p>27.1gr BL-(C)2, Fed 205s, _ ES=79, SD=<strong>25</strong> based on 5 MVs.</p><p></p><p>24.5gr Benchmark, Fed 205s, ES=56, SD=<strong>25</strong>, based on 4 MVs.</p><p>25.0gr Benchmark, Fed 205s, ES=10, SD=<strong><u>5</u></strong>, based on <u>4 MVs</u>.</p><p>24.9gr Benchmark, Fed 205s, ES=87, SD=<strong>34</strong>, based on 6 MVs.</p><p>24.9gr Benchmark, Fed 205s, ES=40, SD=<strong>16</strong>, based on 6 MVs.</p><p>24.9gr Benchmark, Fed 205s, ES=52, SD=<strong>17</strong>, based on 6 MVs.</p><p>24.9gr Benchmark, Fed 205s, ES=38, SD=<strong>14</strong>, based on 5 MVs.</p><p>24.9gr Benchmark, Fed 205s, ES=44, SD=<strong>16</strong>, based on 8 MVs.</p><p>24.9gr Benchmark, Fed 205s, ES=89, SD=<strong>31</strong>, based on 6 MVs.</p><p>24.9gr Benchmark, Fed 205s, ES=44, SD=<strong>17</strong>, based on 6 MVs.</p><p>25.1gr Benchmark, Fed 205s, ES=54, SD=<strong>17</strong>, based on 7 MVs.</p><p>25.1gr Benchmark, <strong><span style="font-size: 15px">Rem 7 1/2</span></strong>, ES=<strong><span style="font-size: 15px">47</span></strong>, SD=<strong><span style="font-size: 15px">13</span></strong>, based on <strong><span style="font-size: 15px">9 MVs</span></strong>. [<strong>Decent ES/SD based on the 9 shots fired.</strong>]</p><p></p><p>26.7gr Varget, Fed 205s, _ ES=48, SD=<strong>15</strong>, based on 8 MVs.</p><p>26.7gr Varget, Fed 205s, _ ES=88, SD=<strong>24</strong>, based on 9 MVs.</p><p>26.7gr Varget, Fed 205s, _ ES=93, SD=<strong>42</strong>, based on 4 MVs.</p><p>26.8gr Varget, Fed 205s, _ ES=41, SD=<strong>13</strong>, based on 8 MVs.</p><p>26.8gr Varget, Fed 205s, _ ES=49, SD=<strong>19</strong>, based on 8 MVs.</p><p>26.8gr Varget, Fed 205s, _ ES=22, SD=<strong><u>9</u></strong>, based on <u>4 MVs</u>.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pdvdh, post: 1236960, member: 4191"] [b]Re: AR15 Running High ES and SD[/b] What I initially thought was temperature sensitive powder now appears to be high ES and SD in my AR15 - across three different powders. I'm beginning to think it is related to the AR15 gas gun. Just so you don't think I'm a whiny butt based on minimal effort, the below data indicates some effort. I tried Varget, BL-(C)2, and Benchmark. Benchmark seemed to produce the lowest ES/SD so far, but only a little improvement compared to Varget and BL-(C)2. They're still higher than I'd prefer, even for plinking. I tried the Rem 7 1/2 primers just once near the end of my testing, after reading that they're a good primer in 223 and also respected in competitive shoots. I ran 9 bullets across the chronographs and for 9 shots, it did show reduced ES and SD. Still nothing to brag about compared to bolt rifles, but enough improvement to spur my intention to rotate into the Rem 7 1/2 primers with my next purchase of primers. What this effort demonstrated to me is the necessity of collecting more MVs than less, if you want to get a true idea of your loads ES/SD. Notice that the two lowest ES/SD were collected with only 4 MVs (4 shots). Simply not enough data to get the real picture of my ES/SDs. I think a minimum of ~12 MVs is required if a guy wants to have any confidence. Because look at the difference in ES/SD when 8 or fewer MV data were recorded. In a .223 - 12 shots is no big deal. In my 30 and 338 caliber magnums, it's a bigger deal in cost and wear & tear on my barrels, and ME. Confidence in these chronographed MVs is very high. I shoot over a triplicate set of chronographs which provide me with 4 separate recorded MVs for each bullet fired. If the MV from any individual chronograph is off by more than 5fps from the other three readings, I don't use that anomalous MV. When you receive 4 MVs for each and every bullet fired, it's easy to identify which chronograph hiccuped, or puked out an erroneous MV. [U]Some of my AR-15 test data, 16" barrel, shooting the 60gr VMax bullet[/U]: 26.9gr BL-(C)2, Fed 205s, _ ES=101, SD=[B]34[/B] based on 6 MVs. 26.9gr BL-(C)2, Fed 205s, _ ES=47, SD=[B]14[/B] based on 8 MVs. 26.9gr BL-(C)2, Fed 205s, _ ES=77, SD=[B]28[/B] based on 8 MVs. 26.9gr BL-(C)2, Fed 205s, _ ES=81, SD=[B]26[/B] based on 5 MVs. 27.1gr BL-(C)2, Fed 205s, _ ES=79, SD=[B]25[/B] based on 5 MVs. 24.5gr Benchmark, Fed 205s, ES=56, SD=[B]25[/B], based on 4 MVs. 25.0gr Benchmark, Fed 205s, ES=10, SD=[B][U]5[/U][/B], based on [U]4 MVs[/U]. 24.9gr Benchmark, Fed 205s, ES=87, SD=[B]34[/B], based on 6 MVs. 24.9gr Benchmark, Fed 205s, ES=40, SD=[B]16[/B], based on 6 MVs. 24.9gr Benchmark, Fed 205s, ES=52, SD=[B]17[/B], based on 6 MVs. 24.9gr Benchmark, Fed 205s, ES=38, SD=[B]14[/B], based on 5 MVs. 24.9gr Benchmark, Fed 205s, ES=44, SD=[B]16[/B], based on 8 MVs. 24.9gr Benchmark, Fed 205s, ES=89, SD=[B]31[/B], based on 6 MVs. 24.9gr Benchmark, Fed 205s, ES=44, SD=[B]17[/B], based on 6 MVs. 25.1gr Benchmark, Fed 205s, ES=54, SD=[B]17[/B], based on 7 MVs. 25.1gr Benchmark, [B][SIZE="4"]Rem 7 1/2[/SIZE][/B], ES=[B][SIZE="4"]47[/SIZE][/B], SD=[B][SIZE="4"]13[/SIZE][/B], based on [B][SIZE="4"]9 MVs[/SIZE][/B]. [[B]Decent ES/SD based on the 9 shots fired.[/B]] 26.7gr Varget, Fed 205s, _ ES=48, SD=[B]15[/B], based on 8 MVs. 26.7gr Varget, Fed 205s, _ ES=88, SD=[B]24[/B], based on 9 MVs. 26.7gr Varget, Fed 205s, _ ES=93, SD=[B]42[/B], based on 4 MVs. 26.8gr Varget, Fed 205s, _ ES=41, SD=[B]13[/B], based on 8 MVs. 26.8gr Varget, Fed 205s, _ ES=49, SD=[B]19[/B], based on 8 MVs. 26.8gr Varget, Fed 205s, _ ES=22, SD=[B][U]9[/U][/B], based on [U]4 MVs[/U]. [/QUOTE]
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Hodgdon Varget .223 - Temperature Sensitive?
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