fixed power scopes

[yobuck]

I an referring to the External adjustable mounts that used a straight tube scope with no adjustment in it, All adjustments were made externally by the scope bases and the scope have a return spring that supposedly returned the scope to battery each time it was fired. This feature was also noted for absorbing most of the recoil that scopes normally receive during firing.

Here is a video on setting up this type of scope.



J E CUSTOM

Well you are correct in that the scope tube itself had no adjustments.
But the rear mount which is a separate removable device from the scope tube served as the adjustment.
Thats where the term externally adjusted came from, in that although it was a part of the scope, it was an external and removable part, rendering the scope tube itself without the means to adjust.
The scope base was no different than other bases in that it simply held the scope onto the gun by way of both front and rear external parts.
In the 90s the long range target shooters became convinced that they could no longer win with the externaly adjusted scopes, and today you wont be finding any used at least by the serious shooters.
In the mid 80s Earl Chronister set a new heavy gun 10 shot record at Williamsport of 3 3/4" in laymans terms, while using a Unertle scope.
The current heavy gun record record which is now nearing the 10 year mark, beats Earls 30 plus year old record while using the inferior scope by about a whopping 1".

 

[david g ranes]

There have been lots of changes in scopes over the years. The centered recital was just one of them. Originally, the recital was a fine wire bonded to a lens that was movable up and down and left to right for scope adjustment. The other lens remained stationary. This type of scope was the reason for the adjustable bases. (It allowed you to better center the scope and this would minimize the offset in the recital. The fixed power scope with no moving parts used special mounts for the zero adjustments like the Unertl and Lyman.

Later they found that the recital could be aligned/adjusted optically so the recital remained centered. Now the recital is Laser etched on the lens and is dependable and crisp.

The adjustable bases like the Unertl and the Lyman target scopes have, are still very popular with the purest and collectors but the newer style of turret adjustments are much more precise, especially at longer distances because of the tolerance requirement for each type of adjustments.
I have to admit that even though I liked the adjustable base concept, the new adjustments are more precise. (Especially when you forget to return the scope into battery after each shot )

I would guess that popularity drives sales and the newest designs are more usable and fit the needs of many different people. they can also be adjusted for different conditions and perform many different task with only one scope. So I would have to give the newest designs an A +.


J E CUSTOM

The bases on the gun I inherited had bulher adjustable bases didn't know how to use them back then. David

 

[Privi457]

They work very well and are not butt ugly like B&L bases.

 

[david g ranes]

That's them have them in a drawer in the garage only set I have ever saw. David

 

[Privi457]

For what I rifle ? I may want them.

 

[david g ranes]

Not to get off the subject but when I inherited this scope and 22 250 I also got 400 nickel plated 52 grain hollow point bullets in a weaver ring box any one happen to know what they might have been when they hit a coyote it would look like you shook a hair pillow out in the air. David

 

[david g ranes]

For what I rifle ? I may want them.

Remington 700

 

[J E Custom]

They work very well and are not butt ugly like B&L bases.


View attachment 202563

This type of scope bases are similar to the standard Redfield adjustable bases and not the ones I was referring to, but they were very good at the time. The Unertl scope adjustment "Rings" looked and operated differently, the rings moved up and down the scope tube.

Another Video, shows this set up better and the difference becomes obvious.



I may not have explained this scope adjustment feature well, If so, Sorry.

J E CUSTOM

 

[J E Custom]

Well to a large degree they are gone because the scope manufacturers chose them to be gone.
Same as fixed power eyepieces in spotting scopes are for but a few exceptions gone also.

Not sure that the shooting world isn't responsible because the manufactures are slaves to sales and if the public want's something, the manufactures will normally accommodate us. Look at the changes that the long range crowd has thrust on them, and the many changes we have demanded.

Things that were very good at one time, are hard if not impossible to find now days. Bench rest used to be the trend setters, but now it seems that every new product is aimed at the long range use. High power spotting scopes are not new but they definitely are an advantage in our sport in my opinion because sometimes the max power will not show conditions as well and being able to try different powers at different ranges all the way out to the limit of the rifle or my ability has been a plus for me. When I shot match's, Many times I would crank the spotting scope to the max to read the mirage and then crank it down to clear the image.

I hear what you are saying and change doesn't come easy for me ether, but when a product comes along that is better engineered and can help me I will make the change.

The other group of shooters that have greatly benefited by these improvements are the assault
rifle crowd. look at the customer driven market for those folks.

Mostly I have come to the conclusion that if we don't buy it, they won't make it.

J E CUSTOM

 

[yobuck]

Not sure that the shooting world isn't responsible because the manufactures are slaves to sales and if the public want's something, the manufactures will normally accommodate us. Look at the changes that the long range crowd has thrust on them, and the many changes we have demanded.

Things that were very good at one time, are hard if not impossible to find now days. Bench rest used to be the trend setters, but now it seems that every new product is aimed at the long range use. High power spotting scopes are not new but they definitely are an advantage in our sport in my opinion because sometimes the max power will not show conditions as well and being able to try different powers at different ranges all the way out to the limit of the rifle or my ability has been a plus for me. When I shot match's, Many times I would crank the spotting scope to the max to read the mirage and then crank it down to clear the image.

I hear what you are saying and change doesn't come easy for me ether, but when a product comes along that is better engineered and can help me I will make the change.

The other group of shooters that have greatly benefited by these improvements are the assault
rifle crowd. look at the customer driven market for those folks.

Mostly I have come to the conclusion that if we don't buy it, they won't make it.

J E CUSTOM

Well i wont disagree with you, at least complely. lol
As for the Unertle, i was of the opinion in your first post about it that you were saying the adjustment was in the base. Im glad for everyones benefit thats cleared up.
As a general rule, a company's primary reason to exist is for profit. If they can simplify the product line in order to improve that, thats what they will do, especially if the masses dont seem affected by it.
Spotting scopes are designed and built specifically for that purpose. Most users use them for that purpose and will select a zoom eyepiece over having various individual power ones. But if you were to compare a zoom eyepiece set on say 20x, to a good quality fixed 20x, you will see a difference in image quality if you look closely. Same goes if you compare an old straight 12x Leupold rifle scope to a varieable set on 12x.
We can also improve the image quality of an older lower price spotting scope, by upgrading the quality of the eyepiece.

 

[david g ranes]

Be careful je can't use slave any more blm will be headed to Texas. David

 

[DSheetz]

This is an interesting read . When I started shooting rifles that had scopes were rare . the quality of scopes wasn't all that great at the time they fogged up , didn't have good coatings on the lens' , the tubes were steel and small in diameter so the light gathering was poor . One of the first scopes I had you could see where they had tied the wire together for the recital just off to the side of the cross . I'm of the opinion that scopes have come a long way in just the last few years here in the United States due to a large part because shooting has come a long way in the last couple of decades for a lot of people in that more and more people have become interested in shooting at longer ranges . I still set my scopes at one power for the most part depending on what the intended use of that rifle will be .

 

[yobuck]

I watched 2 of the Dodson videos pertaining to Unertle scopes.
He spent considerable time discussing how to focus them, as well as making adjustments for parralex.
Actually, those adjustments are made in the same manner as with any of the modern scopes as well.
I mean both are what they are, and adjusting for them dosent change due to the type scope.
What i was a bit disappointed in not seeing however, especially since he went to such length in his discussions about setting them up, was setting them up for dialing. It didnt appear to me that his scopes were set up for 1/4 minit clicks for example. Not saying he couldnt dial the scope, just saying that it would be what ever it is as for click value, requiring a chart to be made for that specific gun.
It wasent unusual to see someone back then having a target scope of that type on a rifle not being properly set up for dialing. And frankly many serious target shooters were included in that group.
Most had a range book they referred to when changing from say 50 yards to 100 yards or even further when they shot.
Back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s when these type scopes were at their peak in popularity among target shooters and many ground hog hunters, precise dialing for a specific distance wasent a topic discussed or known about but by a very few. And they were L/R hunters, not target shooters.
In laymans terms, the scope mounting blocks on an externally adjusted target scope like the Unertle, or a B&L, need be placed at 7.25" oc at the notch, to have the scope properly set up for 1/4 minit clicks. Further apart means less click value, and closer means more. So for a gun having them say 9" apart, you would need to shoot the gun at various distance in order to make up a chart for that specific gun.
No borrowing one from a friend, which is how they were obtained for the most part back then.