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Do You Plan To Buy A New Truck In The Next Year?
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<blockquote data-quote="Trickymissfit" data-source="post: 665812" data-attributes="member: 25383"><p>I'm probably the only guy here that's been inside Honda, Toyota, and Subaru plants as well as Ford, Chrysler, and G.M.. Subaru is pretty much a sweat shop unless it's changed in the last ten years. Toyota actually pays more per year than G.M. and Ford do. There base rate for an assembler is about two dollars less, but at the end of the year they do a profit sharing thing that often is in the 20% range. Their skilled apps are paid well under scale, and that's why they don't have anybody in there. If I were to work in a transplant plant, it'd be Honda (and I won't). Toyota wouldn't be either, but Honda would be the top one. </p><p> </p><p>The domestic plants are unionized and some folks bitch and moan about. Yet none have ever stepped foot in one. Always amazes me that they have xray vision. Skilled people in those plants are the ones that are paid dearly, but even then it's below the job market scale for someone with their skill level. The union and the company are pretty much a similar thing these days no matter what they tell you. It's common knowledge that the most productive plants per work hour are the unionized auto plants by almost a 25% margin. Of these plants, Ford pays slightly more than the other two. The other two are on a semi second tier agreement (note: I used the word "semi"). Harder for Ford to compete with the other two due to labor costs alone (not as important as many here think). To get around this issue half of a Ford is made out of the country, and Ford literally manufactures about 35% of the parts in the product line (it was 30% a few years back). Outsourcing is one thing, but going a step further and moving those jobs accross the borders is another. G.M. does about 65% of it's parts in house, and of the 35% outsourced parts 60% are domestic. Chrysler is similar to Ford. Nobody does glass anymore, and rarely does anybody do their own electronics or wiring. Paint pretty much comes from Dupont. same can be said about seat covers and such. (G.M. still builds it's own seat frames and associated parts.) Labor issues are not a common thing in any of these plants anymore, but with a couple exceptions that have been delt with pretty hard. But 98% of here will think of a car or truck plant with a bunch of bodies rolling down an assembly line. Not much labor there; believe me! The real labor is in the componets that are shipped to the assembly plants, and this is one reason why G.M. is struggeling right now. These componet plants have almost 50% of the people in there not making parts. Machinery is so sophisticated that it takes a lot of folks to keep them running. Japs tend to call in factory reps at over $130 and hour with eight hours minimum. G.M. will do the same if it's in warranty or it's something they don't know how to fix. Their electricians will make about $34 an hour (machine repair is the same). They work in teams that may have as many as six men (at $350K and hour that's cheap). After about two years around a particular piece of equipment these guys usually fix it faster and better than factory service folks. There will also be an engineering group as well as programers and other non productive folks supporting the operator as well. Most salary jobs have been contracted out to outside companies (janators, clerks, etc), but engineering remains steadfast as it should. In this respect Ford is similar.</p><p> </p><p>All these plants use similar equipment, but with one exception. The Jap plants will not buy anything U.S. made! Well we've seen the demise of the U.S. machine tool industry over the last twenty years, and that's a big part of it. It's amazing to me at all the kick backs that are comming out of all these plants ( with Japs, European, and Korean plants this is an acceptable way of doing business). Theft of intellectual property is still a common thing in today's world , and the Japs and Koreans are good at it! But now they are locked out of the places to steal from, and I'm watching the big three catch up and in many cases pass them up. Some folks are slow learners I guess. Then there are the mill stones that have been fitted to the domestic corporations necks. Affirmative action is a tax that used to have a 20% figure on every part made. OHSA is another mill stone. These plants are very safe now, but the OSHA folks are always jacking with them. (rarely a Jap plant I might add). Japs seem tobe better managers than what the big three tend to hire, so I'll have to give them that credit. Plus they tend to treat their help fairly well (better than the big three). </p><p>gary</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Trickymissfit, post: 665812, member: 25383"] I'm probably the only guy here that's been inside Honda, Toyota, and Subaru plants as well as Ford, Chrysler, and G.M.. Subaru is pretty much a sweat shop unless it's changed in the last ten years. Toyota actually pays more per year than G.M. and Ford do. There base rate for an assembler is about two dollars less, but at the end of the year they do a profit sharing thing that often is in the 20% range. Their skilled apps are paid well under scale, and that's why they don't have anybody in there. If I were to work in a transplant plant, it'd be Honda (and I won't). Toyota wouldn't be either, but Honda would be the top one. The domestic plants are unionized and some folks bitch and moan about. Yet none have ever stepped foot in one. Always amazes me that they have xray vision. Skilled people in those plants are the ones that are paid dearly, but even then it's below the job market scale for someone with their skill level. The union and the company are pretty much a similar thing these days no matter what they tell you. It's common knowledge that the most productive plants per work hour are the unionized auto plants by almost a 25% margin. Of these plants, Ford pays slightly more than the other two. The other two are on a semi second tier agreement (note: I used the word "semi"). Harder for Ford to compete with the other two due to labor costs alone (not as important as many here think). To get around this issue half of a Ford is made out of the country, and Ford literally manufactures about 35% of the parts in the product line (it was 30% a few years back). Outsourcing is one thing, but going a step further and moving those jobs accross the borders is another. G.M. does about 65% of it's parts in house, and of the 35% outsourced parts 60% are domestic. Chrysler is similar to Ford. Nobody does glass anymore, and rarely does anybody do their own electronics or wiring. Paint pretty much comes from Dupont. same can be said about seat covers and such. (G.M. still builds it's own seat frames and associated parts.) Labor issues are not a common thing in any of these plants anymore, but with a couple exceptions that have been delt with pretty hard. But 98% of here will think of a car or truck plant with a bunch of bodies rolling down an assembly line. Not much labor there; believe me! The real labor is in the componets that are shipped to the assembly plants, and this is one reason why G.M. is struggeling right now. These componet plants have almost 50% of the people in there not making parts. Machinery is so sophisticated that it takes a lot of folks to keep them running. Japs tend to call in factory reps at over $130 and hour with eight hours minimum. G.M. will do the same if it's in warranty or it's something they don't know how to fix. Their electricians will make about $34 an hour (machine repair is the same). They work in teams that may have as many as six men (at $350K and hour that's cheap). After about two years around a particular piece of equipment these guys usually fix it faster and better than factory service folks. There will also be an engineering group as well as programers and other non productive folks supporting the operator as well. Most salary jobs have been contracted out to outside companies (janators, clerks, etc), but engineering remains steadfast as it should. In this respect Ford is similar. All these plants use similar equipment, but with one exception. The Jap plants will not buy anything U.S. made! Well we've seen the demise of the U.S. machine tool industry over the last twenty years, and that's a big part of it. It's amazing to me at all the kick backs that are comming out of all these plants ( with Japs, European, and Korean plants this is an acceptable way of doing business). Theft of intellectual property is still a common thing in today's world , and the Japs and Koreans are good at it! But now they are locked out of the places to steal from, and I'm watching the big three catch up and in many cases pass them up. Some folks are slow learners I guess. Then there are the mill stones that have been fitted to the domestic corporations necks. Affirmative action is a tax that used to have a 20% figure on every part made. OHSA is another mill stone. These plants are very safe now, but the OSHA folks are always jacking with them. (rarely a Jap plant I might add). Japs seem tobe better managers than what the big three tend to hire, so I'll have to give them that credit. Plus they tend to treat their help fairly well (better than the big three). gary [/QUOTE]
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