Bear firepower.

Sir,
I've had to take out a number of trouble brown bears over the last 23 yrs, with all sorts of rifles, shotguns and pistols. Stick with the center fire rifle. For short range shots, a light, short, .308 has worked very well for me on Moose and brown bear with 180 gr barnes X. anyone can shoot one well. I have seen slugs flatten out on Brown bear breast bones with no serious penetration. If you doubt this, set up some plate steel at 40 yds and shoot it with both. After what I've witnessed, slugs are not designed for heavy bears/moose and perform poorly. Don't believe all the marketing hype. Just keep it simple, use the .308 your wife already has and shoots. Being familiar with it is important. Confidence with that rifle will suit her well, she doesn't have to be overly fast with it. Make that first one count and follow up as needed. Enjoy your visit to Ak. kb
 
I have seen slugs flatten out on Brown bear breast bones with no serious penetration.

Brenneke slugs don't expand. At close range, they simply kill whatever they hit. And you'll have a minimum of 5 quick shots with any pump action shotgun.

The local Fish & Game technician has used Brenneke slugs over his career to dispatch many problem bears. He swears by them.

I also know another retired law enforcement officer that's killed a number of vehicle crippled moose, as well as problem bears with Brenneke slugs. He's hunted since he was old enough to walk, and still hunts and shoots on a near daily basis. He compares the 12 gauge Brenneke slugs to his .458 Magnum, with respect to knockdown / stopping power. Those are his two preferences for stopping an in your face problem bear - right now. And he's just as comfortable with the Brenneke 12 gauge slugs for close range bear as his .458 Win Mag.

Their Special Forces Maximum Barrier Penetration Magnum slug is designed to penetrate engine blocks. I would not recommend shooting armor resistant steel with these slugs at any close range. IF they don't penetrate, they're going to bounce back toward the shooter.

For close range encounters, the 308 Winchester is a pea shooter compared to a 12 gauge Brenneke slug. If I had to track a wounded Brown Bear into the alders, my 1st preference for a carry weapon would be a reliable, field proven, short barreled 12 gauge Rem 870 with the Brenneke slugs.
 
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If you read the first post by the OP his wife has a medical condition and cannot use something with High Recoil if you are shooting a 12 Gauge slug you might as well grab a 338 win or a 375 H&H at that point they will kick less and do a better job. I have not tried the Brenneke slugs but I have tried the sabot slug that was supposed to be the second coming of Christ back in the day. After shooting a large cottonwood tree at 30 yards and having the slug land back by my feet that was enough to convince me slugs were not reliable for penetration. I would take 4 buckshot any day over a slug.
 
I have not tried the Brenneke slugs...

Which is why you're in no position to offer comment on their effectiveness. At least you included the most pertinent fact and qualifier on your advice; that you've never used a Brenneke slug in your life.

Yes, Brenneke slugs kick. I informed the OP these slugs will kick, and to shoot the Brenneke slugs prior to use to verify recoil sensitivity.

#4 Buckshot is a poor recommendation, unless you plan to be close enough that the pattern hasn't opened up. In that case, and at that close range, #4 lead birdshot will also remove the skull caps of the bears.

AK Fish&Game has tested 00 buckshot on brown bear carcasses and demonstrated their inability to penetrate the skull.

If you want to hunt bears, the .308 Winchester would be better at longer ranges than the Brenneke slugs. If you're only preparing to defend against bears at close range, use the Brenneke slugs. If you want to be mauled, use a firearm that doesn't kick.
 
A friend of mine that has fished a lot in Alaska said they always had a guide with a 12 watching over them. He said they also used some bang whiz 12 ammo to warn them off. Does anyone know what ammo this was? How effective was it?
 
If you're referring to noise maker rounds, that launch and then make a bang like fireworks, I wouldn't value them at any close range. At close range, the firearm itself makes a loud noise. Sometimes a loud noise will scare them away. Most often not.

I fired a round past the head of a grizzly bear last fall at a distance of ~30yds and there was no response from the bear. He didn't even blink, let alone run. Yesterday I read a research article on bears' response to the sound of gunfire. 33% of the time the bears would depart. 66% of the time there was no response. 1% of the time, the bear charged. This article advised against firing a round into the air, stating the odds were the bear wouldn't respond by leaving, and that you'd have one less round available to stop the bear.

I know one local hunter who was among of the 1%. He fired a round over the head of a large brown bear on the Kenai Peninsula, which incited an instant charge. He got one round off (30-06) before the bear flattened him to the ground and crunched his face. Fortunately he had a .44 Mag S&W in a shoulder holster. With his head in the bear's mouth, he jabbed the muzzle into the fur above him and fired that last four 4 rounds into the underside of the bear. The first two rounds were fired with the revolver in the shoulder holster in the effort to get to bear to lift its paws off his chest so he could clear the revolver from the holster. After absorbing the 4 slugs, the bear paused, and then turned and ambled away, sparing the man's life. This bear's carcass was never found, even though a lot of effort was invested by F&G and the man's immediate family members. Do a Google search using the search terms Dale Bagley and bear attack and you'll be able to read about it. Mr. Bagley spent quite some time in the hospital, undergoing reconstructive surgery.

There are bean bag rounds, similar to those used by law enforcement for riot control. And rubber slugs which will bounce off a bear at farther distances. Fish&Game will sometimes recommend the use of these to discourage nuisance barkyard bears, from the safety of your home. Those will likely encourage a bear to leave, without causing physical injury to the bear. I wouldn't own or use any of these rounds out in the wild. All they do is reduce the number of lethal rounds available to kill a bear with a butt-ugly attitude.
 
right on Phorwath. What i don't hink they understand is that these are little back east black bears that can be killed with a 243. If you're salmon fishing in an area with bears, those bears are going to be larger than any other bear anywhere. period. they have lots of high quality food and that makes them very big and very strong. sure the 308 will kill a brown bear with a side on lung shot or one between the eyes, but when that thing is charging at 30mph, you need numbers on your side. Ftlbs at the short range is what will stop a bear charge. you don't want to have to rely on a single 180gr placed directly between the bobbing eyes on a charging bear. no offense, but if she can't handle the recoil give her 2 cans of bear mace and hope there isn't an issue.
 
Bear spray is pretty effective, if you hit the bear in the face full force.

The local Fish and Game Tech that responds to bear complaint incidents has told me that he, personally, has no use for bear spray. He also teaches bear defense courses. He includes a section on the use of bear spray, but has no use for it himself. He's 100% Brenneke slugs in his Remington 870.

A number of Alaskans carry bear spray for bear protection. In the research I've read on it, bear spray can be pretty darn effective - if deployed properly.

I don't buy it or use it. A co-worker of mine brought a can of bear spray in to work to demonstrate its use to some others in our office that occasionally need to venture out into the wilds. He pointed the bear spray down wind, careful to ensure others wouldn't be affected, squeezed the trigger and... AND... absolutely nothing happened! The can did not spray a **** thing. Talk about an eye opener! He contacted the manufacturer and the manufacturer asked him to check the expiration date. He did and the expiration date was exceeded.

I shared this incident with the local F&G technician and he said he uses instructional cans of bear spray while teaching his courses on bear defense. These demonstration cans are intended to spray identically to the real cans of bear spray but they contain no pepper, and are designed for use in the classroom settings. He told me experienced a failure to fire with a demo can that was within its expiration date. Said he wasn't overly surprised to learn of our experience with the dud can of bear spray.

So ask yourself, how many cartridges have you had fail to fire in your lifetime? What's the expiration date on cartridge, compared to the expiration date on a can of bear spray? And which do you prefer to entrust you health and life to, in an impending bear attack.

I can load 4-7 slugs in the magazine of my 870. IF I should get a misfire, I can eject that dud round and have another round in the chamber in very short order.

How many cans of bear spray do you want to carry with you? How long does it take to get a second can ready to fire if the first can fails to fire. I'm thumbs down on bear spray, but I'm very accomplished with firearms, after 50 years of hunting and shooting experiences.

For the gun shy, or gun inexperienced, bear spray may indeed be the better option. But might I advise you pay attention to the expiration dates, and carry a spare can. Store them in a proper temperature-controlled environment. Do all this, and if both cans fail to fire, I'd conclude God was calling me off this planet, albeit in a fairly painful manner.

EDIT/ADDITION: With respect to bear attacks, experience level with firearms, and any assurance of surviving a full blown bear attack: I purchased a Win Mod 70 Featherweight in 7mm Mauser from a local man ~ 20-25 years ago. Very friendly likeable man. Very experienced with rifles. Guns, shooting, reloading, and hunting were his hobbies. He provided me with his reloading data for that rifle and some of the targets/groups he'd fired. The local gunsmith (my brother) later told me he knew the man well, as he was a good customer. Said the man was an avid shooter. I took the barreled action out of the stock and saw that he'd carefully glass-bedded the rifle, and also lightened the magazine by swiss-cheesing it with a drill press. Guy told me he loved the 280 and 7mm caliber cartridges. This story has an tragic ending. He went for a Sunday spring hike down a local horse trail into the Kenai National Wildlife Refuge maybe 15 years ago. Took a camp stove and some food with him to prepare a mid-day lunch. Was sorta black bear hunting, but mostly out to get some exercise and enjoy the outdoors on a nice, warm, sunny spring day. He took along a .280 caliber rifle, but never returned. Folks went out and found him dead next to a fallen tree trunk. His camp stove, food, and backpack were set up on/against the tree trunk, and all appearances were that he'd stopped for a lunch break. His rifle was found nearby. One empty casing was found on the ground, and one empty casing was still in the chamber. Huge brown bear tracks visible on the ground. I talked to one of the search party, who was a friend of the deceased. He said the top of the man's skull was missing and the brains were exposed. He used not one single adjective I can repeat on this forum to describe this bear. All he had for this bear was utter contempt. The bear was never found, and there was not certain evidence that either fired round hit the bear. One theory was that he may have fired off a warning shot in the effort to scare the bear into backing down, and then perhaps never had time for another well-aimed shot. By all accounts, it was an immense, mature boar. This incident has served to remind me of the harsh reality that no matter the firearm experience of the bear attack victim, sometimes the bear wins. Survival isn't assured or certain no matter the skill and preparation level.
 
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Ha! Those were the two most interesting local bear mauling incidents I can muster up. You may have to revert to the movie.

Here's one more perhaps worth the mentioning. I was stalked by a black bear once about 10 yrs ago. Was taking a mid-day nap on the mountain side during a spring hunt for black bear in the Kenai Mountains. I heard a noise like an animal or human clearing their nose maybe 40-50yds away, and then really nothing more. Lifted my head up and looked around for a bit. Nothing more. So I settled down again to nap more before the evening hunt. After mulling this over in my mind, I got anxious/uncomfortable and raised my head a second time maybe 10 minutes later. Flat on my back and looking over my feet I see two black ear tips come into view from ~15 yards away. My initial thought was great, this bear is going to get away. The bear was directly down wind of me. He basically followed my scent trail up to me. He moved a step closer exposing his head, and confirming he was a decent sized bear. He's already staring directly at me, cuz he had my scent. Like a dummy, I had leaned my rifle up against a shrub about 4 yds away. I'm thinking no way I'll be able to get to my rifle before this bear bounds away.

Danged if the bear doesn't continue his approach. A cautious step or two and then more bold staring. I'm trying to scoot on my butt over to my rifle now, without inviting a predatory response from the bear. About the time the bear cut the distance in half, the prior thoughts of 'this bear is going to get away', have changed to 'am I going to get away'. By the time I get to my rifle, the bear's about 20 feet away. On me in one jump, two at the most. I get the scope covers off and when the rifles ready to roll, I quickly moved the gun to my shoulder/firing position. That fast motion caused the bear to feint a jump off to the side - away from me. But he halts that motion, and then swings his shoulders and head back in my direction, as if challenging me.

I'd had more than enough, and I plugged him through the lungs from 20 feet with a 7mm Rem Mag. The muzzle blast must have been tremendous toward the bear. He jumped and ran off out of sight. In short order I heard a death bawl not terribly far away. I waited, listened, watched, and thought. Followed up the trail after 15 minutes and there found him piled up about 50yds off.

I have no idea what might have happened had I not lifted my head up to look around that 2nd time.
 
One of my most favorite things to do is take the mid afternoon nap in the woods. It's always more comfortable than anything at home. We have plenty of bears here in MT.
After reading your story, I am not sure if I will ever nap the same.

Steve
 
When I am out Hunting or just kicking about in the wood's and I know there are Bear in the Area I carry My Ruger RedHawk with a 5.50" bbl in a 44 mag. As far as Ammo go's I keep HSM Bear Loads in a 305 grain bulletin in my gun. And keep it Handy in a Diamond D Custom Leather Guides Choice Chest Holster.
 
Here some pics of few of these bad boys. The halibut is just for fun I didn't shoot it, took him of with nothing more than a stick
 

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