Anyone use a 243/6mm caliber for blackies?

[wilkup]

Just looking to spark a fun discussion, and what better topic than bear firepower.

I know they're not difficult to kill, and figure the smaller diameter bullets should be able to get it done too whether it's a 6XC or 240 Gibbs, I think they're probably all up for the task of taking the average black bear in the lower 48. gun)

Thoughts?

 

[HARPERC]

Barely unpacked and already stirring the pot. LOL!

1) Average bear? 2) Difficult to kill? 3) Which bullet?

Used to be a guy from WA Outdoor Life used to feature every once in awhile. Professional bear hunter for the timber companies, snares, hounds, no holds barred kind of approach. Only person ever to claim workers comp for a bear bite.

He preferred a .358 Norma at that time. They'd always throw O'connor at him at that point. If I quote him correctly-"if you're shooting the the small bear most shoot, it doesn't matter what you use it will work. If you get into the odd real bear-bigger is better."

Easy to kill, maybe, easy to recover not so much. I know of a fair amount of hound men that get 2AM found calls to help with recovery. You're back in the jungles of WA state.

Select a good bullet, pick your spot, take your shot.

 

[wilkup]

Barely unpacked and already stirring the pot. LOL!
...
1) Average bear? 2) Difficult to kill? 3) Which bullet?You're back in the jungles of WA state.
...
Select a good bullet, pick your spot, take your shot.

Stirring the pot is entertaining and bear hunting always sparks fun discussions lol

1) Let's say *average bear* <450 lbs
2) Seems they die easy with a well-placed shot
3) Pick your bullet In my experience, heavy VLDs work well and so do the fast copper options

The jungle is a wonderful place to be and I am thrilled to be back in the most beautiful corner of our country!

Still trying to relocate all my shooting stuff.

 

[HARPERC]

....1) Let's say *average bear* <450 lbs
....2) Seems they die easy with a well-placed shot
....3) Pick your bullet In my experience, heavy VLDs work well and so do the fast copper options

The jungle is a wonderful place to be and I am thrilled to be back in the most beautiful corner of our country! ...........Still trying to relocate all my shooting stuff.

Some pretty decent bear in that average.
What shot do you prefer?
With the changing bullet styles, many 6mm's don't have the twist to support some of the heavier VLDs, and copper options, What twist are you running?

How are you hunting your corner? Anticipated ranges etc.
My reloading room has acquired a real lived in look, due for a serious cleaning I don't seem to find energy for.

 

[Engineering101]

Yeah I'll admit that I have thrown lead at a pretty good sized black bear from a 6mm Rem. Would have killed him to if he hadn't moved his head just as the firing pin fell. I was aiming at his left eye from 30 yards. Probably one of the dumbest things I have every done in my life. This was up by Timber Mountain North of Spokane a bit. There are some pretty big bears up there. A couple family members shot some one of which turned into a pretty nice rug which I had for many years. But if I was going after bear today I would assess my gun cabinet which is orgainized by caliber and draw a line about right down the middle. On the right of that line we have 270 WSM and smaller. On the left of that line we have 28 Nosler and bigger. I'd go bigger for sure. Most likely I'd leave the 338 RUM but grab the 300 WSM. Let me say it plain - 6mm is too small for bear. My brothers girl friend killed a charging black bear with a 22 LR pistol and it dropped at her feet. She didn't have any choice as it was the only firearm she had. Still doesn't make a 6mm a good idea for bear.

 

[HARPERC]

....This was up by Timber Mountain North of Spokane a bit. There are some pretty big bears up there......

What years, or when was the last time you were in there? There are some big bears in there, and increasingly those of the humped back, long claw version.

 

[Engineering101]

HARPERC

Yeah I'm aware of grizzly moving in. I've seen them live and in person down in the Blue Mountains too so they are probably half way to California by now. This particular bear was the most beautiful bear I've ever seen by far, pure gold with a black raccoon mask - and really really big. I guess when you get moose you get girzzly to. Also saw a couple of timber wolf up North of you. Since coyotes don't go 150 pounds I was pretty sure they were wolves. Its been about 3 years since I've been in there. It has grown too thick for deer (needs a good fire) so I've been hunting closer in to my sister's place around Springdale when I'm hunting in Washington. Somehow the Blue Mountains have gotten stepper and more rugged than they used to be 10 years ago so I may not get back there though I absolutely love the place.

 

[Barrelnut]

I got 5 1/2 ft spring bear 3 years ago. 210 yards with a 300 WSM and a 210 VLD. First shot put it down for good I feel, but it started a death moan, so I immediately hit it again. One of the bullets left a 1 1/2 inch L shaped exit wound from a perfect broadside shot.

This spring I plan on using the same 300 WSM with 178 ELD-X. Figure that should be good from close to 500 yards or so. Just depends on how far out in the open it is.

I hunt them by myself and like something that can pin them down where they stand. The country is steep and I don't want it running off into a bottom.

A good 6.5 might be ok, but wouldn't use a 6.

 

[HARPERC]

....This particular bear was the most beautiful bear I've ever seen by far, pure gold with a black raccoon mask - and really really big....I Also saw a couple of timber wolf up North of you....Its been about 3 years since I've been in there. It has grown too thick for deer (needs a good fire) so I've been hunting closer in to my sister's place around Springdale when I'm hunting in Washington

I saw that color scheme on one many years ago between Granite, and Timber. Small bear, out of season at the time.

Wolf tracks getting pretty common around Springdale.

A good fire would help a lot in all of NE Washington.

 

[Engineering101]

HARPERC

Since you have hunted between Granite and Timber, I know where you will be if you draw a moose tag.

 

[wilkup]

I don't personally have a 6mm picked out for this, just curious what y'all's thoughts on it might be. My experience with 6.5mm, 30 cal and 44 cal bullets is that the larger the diameter, the better they killed what I was pointing them at.
The 30 cal was a compromise between the longer range 6.5 Sherman and my heavy-hitting 44 Magnum. I'm mostly just curious at this point, not sold on hunting with a 6mm. I have seen several articles about the 257 Weatherby being a show stopper with fast VLDs, which got me wondering about how a comparable 6mm would do. 115gr Berger zipping along seems like it'd be deadly, just not something I'd prefer for protection or following up into the bushes/deadfalls, after poor shot placement.
I like to hit midway up from belly just behind the shoulder, aiming for the offside shoulder - crossing my fingers for shredded internals and busted off-side shoulder.

If I were to use a 6mm it would be based off a WSM case and I'd hope for something close to 257 Weatherby performance.

Distance: <400 yards
Bullet: 115gr VLD/DTAC
Twist: Would have to be ~1-7.5" I think

I don't have any place picked out yet... I prefer to sit on top of a clear cut that borders a good blackberry patch. We'll see what I'm able to find.

 

[Engineering101]

walkup

I think you have slipped a digit in your calibers when you compared a 6mm WSM and 257 Weatherby performance as they don't shoot the same bullets. 240 Weatherby would be a more appropriate comparison. Also I have a 6mm Rem and a 6.5 WSM. I'd take either one of those over a 6mm WSM.

By the way welcome back. Where did you come back from?

 

[wilkup]

walkup

I think you have slipped a digit in your calibers when you compared a 6mm WSM and 257 Weatherby performance as they don't shoot the same bullets. 240 Weatherby would be a more appropriate comparison. Also I have a 6mm Rem and a 6.5 WSM. I'd take either one of those over a 6mm WSM.

By the way welcome back. Where did you come back from?

You don't think a 6mm WSM pushing a 115gr would compare favorably with a 257 Weatherby pushing 115gr? I know there's the diameter difference, but velocities should be pretty close I would imagine. I'm not sure I understand how a 6mm Rem would be comparable/better than a WSM-based wildcat...?

I was down south the past couple years in the last of private hunt leases and stand hunting. I feel so lucky and blessed to be back in the west where Fair Chase and Public Land is wildly available and the accepted hunting practice. Thanks for the welcome back =)

 

[Engineering101]

walkup

My favoring the 6mm Rem over the 6mm WSM would be based on a rule of diminishing returns. I suspect that the later would be a barrel burner on par with the 26 Nosler while achieving very little real world gain in performance. it is just too extreme. A case in point - in Nosler's reloading manual number 8 the 240 Weatherby is ~ 91 fps faster than the 6mm Rem while burning 53 grains of RL-22 to the 6mm Rem's 48 grains. Those are max loads for both with 100 grain bullets and 24 inch barrels. So 5 grains of powder gets you less barrel life and 91 fps. Not worth it in my book. Since the 6mm WSM is a wildcat (another problem) I don't have numbers for it but I suspect it has even less gain per grain of powder than the 240 Weatherby. You could get at least 63 grains of RL-22 in a 6mm WSM case and it all still has to go down the same skinny little tube. Another way of putting it. I'm running RL-50 in my 6.5 WSM. It is the slowest powder you can buy so you have no where to go for a slower powder in the 6mm WSM.