Annealing, help me deside

[Edd]

I don't think you want to dip them in motor oil.

You have to have the lead at about 750 degrees to anneal your brass. I think the flash point of the oil will be lower than that.

The motor oil might react like pouring water on hot grease. Even if it doesn't vaporize, you will likely still have a pot of flaming/smoking lead and oil.

 

[Kroberts]

I just sping the cases by the rim between my fingers and watch until the color change gets just past the shoulder into te body and drop them into a pan of water. The necks are soft and the heads stay hard since you won't be able to hold onto the cases into its softening point. On a 308 sizes case your fingers just startt to get warm about the same time the color shift hits gets just past the shoulder. Quick, easy and cheap. All you need is a torch and a bowl of water.

Kyle

 

[Trickymissfit]

Considering I already have a large stock pile of plummets lead will try that first.

I've read repeatedly that dipping the length of case to be annealer in motor oil emeaditly prior to immersing it in molten lead is how you prevent any lead from sticking to the brass.

Is this correct?

Oil will not the heat soak till it's too late. Your annealing the neck and just past the shoulders. Not the case body! Heat transfer in brss is very fast, and needs to be stopped as fast as you can. Ice water is very quick and clean.
Gary

 

[Mikecr]

I've read repeatedly that dipping the length of case to be annealer in motor oil emeaditly prior to immersing it in molten lead is how you prevent any lead from sticking to the brass. Is this correct?

Yes, but not just any oil.
It has to be Mobil1 synthetic. No other, not even Amsoil.
This will not burn off until pooling to a sort of critical mass on the molten lead surface. It's a slow burn, no big deal, and useful to remove the oil. Of course it's done outdoors, but there is no lead in the fumes at process annealing temperatures. The hazards in fumes are from impurities present, like smoking oil, zinc, silver, etc.

The salt used for annealing of brass melts below 300degF: Salt – Ballistic Recreations- Essentials For Salt Bath Annealing
Just pay attention & don't drop anything in either lead or salt baths. But if you do, it won't kill you.
Tipping the bath onto your penis might(unless you're Chuck Norris).

I've done lead dip for ~25yrs now. Will probably try salt & see how well it works.
Unlike any torch or inductive process, you can do deep case annealing with dipping and without threat to webs. I hold case heads with my fingers while dipping, and drop in water. As long as the brass is not held(for quite a while) at 450degF, it's grain structure does not change.
With dipping you have such precise control over temperature that there is just no reasonable way to screw it up.

As to the of paranoia in murmurs of the ignorant;
Pay it no mind

 

[Bravo 4]

I use a plate with pins pressed into it. The pins are made to fit the neck I.D., with .004" clearance. Use a temp stick to get your timing right. With fifteen or twenty pins it goes very fast. I use nothing but an electric kitchen range. Just keep a pan of ice water close by.
Gary

I would like to hear more about this process. Maybe some pictures?

 

[Trickymissfit]

I would like to hear more about this process. Maybe some pictures?

I used either 3/8th" or 1/2" 1020 steel plate with holes drilled and reamed for dowel pins (drill rod will do just as well). I turned down the ends of the dowel pins to fit the case neck, and also leave a small step. Some of them didn't need to be turned at all, so I left them alone. Mostly used .376" diameter pins. Still need to do a .458" and a .429"
plate and pins.

Once the plate gets up to around 600 degrees, it's time to goto work. I like at least a dozen pins on the plate. Then you put the brass on the pins in thirty second intervals (one pin at a time). Use a temp stick at first to see where your at, and after awhile you don't need it.. Lastly make sure the pin goes past the total neck length! Say .10" longer.

Somebody is now making and selling the plates, but who I don't know. I got the idea from the bench rest crowd. I thought about one plate that had screw in pins, but it'd took forever to make the pins.
gary

 

[DartonJager]

Well Have salt and shell plates on the way and I already have a digital temp meter with T/couple probe along with a Lee lead melting pot so I should be able to give salt bath annealing a try in 5-7 days. I have a perfect area to do my annealing in as well as free great PPE.

Will experiment with using a torch but I will need a different torch head than I presently own as I gave torch annealing a try and it became obvious that my torch was to hot and I need torch head that can produce a smaller more focused flame.

Once I get everything up and running will post my findings.

 

[Bravo 4]

Thanks Tricky, I may have to give this a try.
Any additional info and I'm all ears.

 

[DartonJager]

I used either 3/8th" or 1/2" 1020 steel plate with holes drilled and reamed for dowel pins (drill rod will do just as well). I turned down the ends of the dowel pins to fit the case neck, and also leave a small step. Some of them didn't need to be turned at all, so I left them alone. Mostly used .376" diameter pins. Still need to do a .458" and a .429"
plate and pins.

Once the plate gets up to around 600 degrees, it's time to goto work. I like at least a dozen pins on the plate. Then you put the brass on the pins in thirty second intervals (one pin at a time). Use a temp stick at first to see where your at, and after awhile you don't need it.. Lastly make sure the pin goes past the total neck length! Say .10" longer.

Somebody is now making and selling the plates, but who I don't know. I got the idea from the bench rest crowd. I thought about one plate that had screw in pins, but it'd took forever to make the pins.
gary

Please as soon as you find out who is making the plates for sale it would be of great help to many who need to anneal but not in large amounts and as such need a simple cost effective method like this.

 

[Trickymissfit]

Well Have salt and shell plates on the way and I already have a digital temp meter with T/couple probe along with a Lee lead melting pot so I should be able to give salt bath annealing a try in 5-7 days. I have a perfect area to do my annealing in as well as free great PPE.

Will experiment with using a torch but I will need a different torch head than I presently own as I gave torch annealing a try and it became obvious that my torch was to hot and I need torch head that can produce a smaller more focused flame.

Once I get everything up and running will post my findings.

salt melts at 1460 degrees, and it almost four times the temp you need. Putting that aside, it can be extremely dangerous! One drop of water can be a disaster (think one bead of sweat). I have worked around molten salt quite a bit, and never liked being close to it. Still at 1460 degrees, it's perfect for steel and nothing else.

The next hurdle to climb is getting the salt to melt! Your not going to get there with your back yard grill. I would never do it indoors as it can be a fire hazard. If it goes bananas from a drop of water, the spray will set the house on fire. Plus send everybody to the burn unit. Most folks that use the stuff have a huge Halon fire suppression system cause this stuff doesn't play around.

gary

 

[kyron]

Different salts melt at different temperatures. There are salts that melt at very low (relatively) temperatures.

 

[TwoMore]

this particular salt melts at 300 degrees,and it is a very small amount compared to lets say a crankshaft carburizing vat. I am going to have to check this out a lil bit more

 

[DartonJager]

salt melts at 1460 degrees, and it almost four times the temp you need. Putting that aside, it can be extremely dangerous! One drop of water can be a disaster (think one bead of sweat). I have worked around molten salt quite a bit, and never liked being close to it. Still at 1460 degrees, it's perfect for steel and nothing else.

The next hurdle to climb is getting the salt to melt! Your not going to get there with your back yard grill. I would never do it indoors as it can be a fire hazard. If it goes bananas from a drop of water, the spray will set the house on fire. Plus send everybody to the burn unit. Most folks that use the stuff have a huge Halon fire suppression system cause this stuff doesn't play around.

gary

Thank you I appreciate your concern but the salt I plan on using melts at IIRC 500* farinhite and I'm going to use a temperature controlled LEE lead melting pot and use a digital temp meter with thermalcouple to closely monitor the molten salts temperature as I anneal my brass I have excellent free pipe at my disposal as well as a area set up that is near perfect to do my annealing
I work in an industry that is very dangerous and at my particular facility since 1930's nearly 600 workers haven killed and if you were to include outside contractor deaths the number would be closer to 800 as such I receive a great deal of safety training so I am very aware of how to do potentially dangerous jobs safely
Thankfully the majority of thosr tragedies took place in years past and my particular facility has become much safer but you still must stay vigilant or your name will end up on a marbal monument on plant property

 

[Trickymissfit]

Thank you I appreciate your concern but the salt I plan on using melts at IIRC 500* farinhite and I'm going to use a temperature controlled LEE lead melting pot and use a digital temp meter with thermalcouple to closely monitor the molten salts temperature as I anneal my brass I have excellent free pipe at my disposal as well as a area set up that is near perfect to do my annealing
I work in an industry that is very dangerous and at my particular facility since 1930's nearly 600 workers haven killed and if you were to include outside contractor deaths the number would be closer to 800 as such I receive a great deal of safety training so I am very aware of how to do potentially dangerous jobs safely
Thankfully the majority of thosr tragedies took place in years past and my particular facility has become much safer but you still must stay vigilant or your name will end up on a marbal monument on plant property

one thing I've learned about salt tanks in the past is that once you use salt in them, you might as well dedicate it to salt only. Never heard of salt melting that low I might add. Must be something new. I would recommend having a sheet metal cover with a long handle in case something goes wrong. Something we learned about the hard way.
gary