ADMIN
Administrator
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2008
- Messages
- 1,224
This is a thread for discussion of the article, 338 Norma Review , By Ward W. Brien. Here you can ask questions or make comments about the article.
338 Norma Review By Ward W. Brien
- Thread starter ADMIN
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
dougm
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the interesting article.
Is this the same cartridge as the .338 Norma Mag that I have read about elsewhere?
Why did you go with a faster twist barrel over the original 1:9.4?
Also, was this twist (1:9.4) chosen over the standard 1:10 due to the shorter barrel and reduced velocity over that obtained from the longer barrels used typically?
Do you think a 1:9.6 would also be adequate for this cartridge?
Thanks
Doug
Is this the same cartridge as the .338 Norma Mag that I have read about elsewhere?
Why did you go with a faster twist barrel over the original 1:9.4?
Also, was this twist (1:9.4) chosen over the standard 1:10 due to the shorter barrel and reduced velocity over that obtained from the longer barrels used typically?
Do you think a 1:9.6 would also be adequate for this cartridge?
Thanks
Doug
9
985
Guest
Doug:
This is the same cartridge you may have been reading about.
Most of the guys that are building these feel that the optimum twist rate is 1:9.4.
However, the 1:9.1 Works Perfect. I started with my barrel length at 28" and obtained
2780 fps. (The 10" group at 1536 was due to a full value left to right wind that you could not see. No indicators whatsoever. If we had been shooting without that wind, the group would have been pretty small...
I then cut the barrel down to 24" and obtained a velocity of 2710 fps. That's not much of a velocity loss for four full inches.
Now I have cut the barrel down to 22.8", and with 1:9.1 twist rate I get two full twists and my accuracy is still phenomenal. I have not chronoed the loads yet however I increased the charge to 83.5 grains of R22 with Fed 215M primers, and will work up in .2 increments starting tomorrow.
On the second page of the article, where it shows the target and two bullet holes... That was made when I was breaking in the barrel. The hole on the left is round 21 and was shot out of a perfectly clean barrel. The hole to the right is round 22 and 23 out of 23 Total.
I absolutely Love this cartridge. Really...
This is the same cartridge you may have been reading about.
Most of the guys that are building these feel that the optimum twist rate is 1:9.4.
However, the 1:9.1 Works Perfect. I started with my barrel length at 28" and obtained
2780 fps. (The 10" group at 1536 was due to a full value left to right wind that you could not see. No indicators whatsoever. If we had been shooting without that wind, the group would have been pretty small...
I then cut the barrel down to 24" and obtained a velocity of 2710 fps. That's not much of a velocity loss for four full inches.
Now I have cut the barrel down to 22.8", and with 1:9.1 twist rate I get two full twists and my accuracy is still phenomenal. I have not chronoed the loads yet however I increased the charge to 83.5 grains of R22 with Fed 215M primers, and will work up in .2 increments starting tomorrow.
On the second page of the article, where it shows the target and two bullet holes... That was made when I was breaking in the barrel. The hole on the left is round 21 and was shot out of a perfectly clean barrel. The hole to the right is round 22 and 23 out of 23 Total.
I absolutely Love this cartridge. Really...
WWB,
Thanks for the article.
I have 2 custom rifles based on the 338 Norma Mag.
Found out about the cartridge last July. I thought the 338 was a propriotory cartridge, so I necked it down to a 30cal, and improved the shoulder angle. My gunsmith ( SSG/ Nathan Dagley ) got the reamer back in Sept 08 and built me a rifle. I call it a 300 JAZZ, and it is an extremely accurate rifle. Shot a 2 1/2 " group yesterday morning with it at 723 yards, with only 1" in verticle. I am shooting 240gr SMK @ 2840fps with no pressure signs.
After talking with Mr. Sloan and gaining permission to buy his reamer, I had SSG make me a 338 Norma Mag as well. I received my 338 Norma Mag from SSG/Nathan Dagley last week. I have not shot it yet, but expect it to be just as accurate as my 300 JAZZ.
What I like about these cartridges is that I can shoot the long VLD bullets in the 30cal, or the 300gr SMK in the 338 and use the standard magbox, and not have to seat the bullets deeper in the case. Jimmy Sloan's design for that is right on the money.
I also feel that because of the design of the case that the cartridge will be forgiving in load developement.
After pressure testing was done in my 300 JAZZ, my load developement went very easy. My first loads were shooting .75 MOA out to 725yards. Since then I have done alittle tuning and am now 1/2 MOA or less out to 750yards.
I think the more people find out about the 338 Norma and it's offspring, the more popular it will become.
Thanks for the article.
I have 2 custom rifles based on the 338 Norma Mag.
Found out about the cartridge last July. I thought the 338 was a propriotory cartridge, so I necked it down to a 30cal, and improved the shoulder angle. My gunsmith ( SSG/ Nathan Dagley ) got the reamer back in Sept 08 and built me a rifle. I call it a 300 JAZZ, and it is an extremely accurate rifle. Shot a 2 1/2 " group yesterday morning with it at 723 yards, with only 1" in verticle. I am shooting 240gr SMK @ 2840fps with no pressure signs.
After talking with Mr. Sloan and gaining permission to buy his reamer, I had SSG make me a 338 Norma Mag as well. I received my 338 Norma Mag from SSG/Nathan Dagley last week. I have not shot it yet, but expect it to be just as accurate as my 300 JAZZ.
What I like about these cartridges is that I can shoot the long VLD bullets in the 30cal, or the 300gr SMK in the 338 and use the standard magbox, and not have to seat the bullets deeper in the case. Jimmy Sloan's design for that is right on the money.
I also feel that because of the design of the case that the cartridge will be forgiving in load developement.
After pressure testing was done in my 300 JAZZ, my load developement went very easy. My first loads were shooting .75 MOA out to 725yards. Since then I have done alittle tuning and am now 1/2 MOA or less out to 750yards.
I think the more people find out about the 338 Norma and it's offspring, the more popular it will become.
blipelt
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the article, it makes me even more excited to get my 284JAZZ from Nathan at SSG.
Brent
Brent
9
985
Guest
The 338 Norma cartridge inspires allot of thinking.
As Trueblue mentioned, necking down the 338 Norma to a 30 caliber is an awesome idea, and it is my understanding that there are others out there doing it as well. When I think about shooting the 338 Lapua, I have to honestly ask myself how ballistically effective is it against either a 338 Norma, or a 300 win mag with the use of 185 grain Berger's VLD's?
Every ballistician's intentions are good, and all ballistician's do their best to get their project(s) shooting as accurately as possible. However, the 338 Norma has been shooting exceptionally well no matter what length my barrel is and at distances just short of a mile.
So for me, it has become my personal favorite. Build a Gas Gun chambered for this cartridge, and an experienced Shooter can own the mountain.
As Trueblue mentioned, necking down the 338 Norma to a 30 caliber is an awesome idea, and it is my understanding that there are others out there doing it as well. When I think about shooting the 338 Lapua, I have to honestly ask myself how ballistically effective is it against either a 338 Norma, or a 300 win mag with the use of 185 grain Berger's VLD's?
Every ballistician's intentions are good, and all ballistician's do their best to get their project(s) shooting as accurately as possible. However, the 338 Norma has been shooting exceptionally well no matter what length my barrel is and at distances just short of a mile.
So for me, it has become my personal favorite. Build a Gas Gun chambered for this cartridge, and an experienced Shooter can own the mountain.
dougm
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the replies.
One more question, are you guys building the .338 Norma on a standard Rem 700 action?
I have a .338 Lapua now, and I like it, but don't want to buy another oversized action since I already have a Remington action I could use.
Thanks
Doug
One more question, are you guys building the .338 Norma on a standard Rem 700 action?
I have a .338 Lapua now, and I like it, but don't want to buy another oversized action since I already have a Remington action I could use.
Thanks
Doug
dougm,
This question falls into the category as can a 338 Lapua be built on a Remington action, as the 338 Norma and 338 Lapua share the same parent case and rim diameter. The 338 Norma is a shorter case (2.50")with minimal body taper and 94gr of usable case capacity. You will get different answers on this question, but my answer is yes, the 338 Norma Mag can be built and is being built on a standard Remington action. There have been tens of thousands of rounds fired in this caliber on a standard Remington action. Design pressure is around 63817psi. You would however need to open up the boltface alittle, but the 338 Norma works perfectly in the standard 3.60 magbox. COAL of the 338 Norma with the 300gr SMK is 3.50" , As with all rifles you need to watch your pressures when developing your reloads. From what I am hearing the 338 Norma is yielding 2750-2800fps with the 300gr SMK out of a 26" barrel. My 300 JAZZ, which is an improved 30cal version of the 338 Norma, is built on a custom Remington clone action( Phoenix) .700 bolt, so I practice what I preach.
This question falls into the category as can a 338 Lapua be built on a Remington action, as the 338 Norma and 338 Lapua share the same parent case and rim diameter. The 338 Norma is a shorter case (2.50")with minimal body taper and 94gr of usable case capacity. You will get different answers on this question, but my answer is yes, the 338 Norma Mag can be built and is being built on a standard Remington action. There have been tens of thousands of rounds fired in this caliber on a standard Remington action. Design pressure is around 63817psi. You would however need to open up the boltface alittle, but the 338 Norma works perfectly in the standard 3.60 magbox. COAL of the 338 Norma with the 300gr SMK is 3.50" , As with all rifles you need to watch your pressures when developing your reloads. From what I am hearing the 338 Norma is yielding 2750-2800fps with the 300gr SMK out of a 26" barrel. My 300 JAZZ, which is an improved 30cal version of the 338 Norma, is built on a custom Remington clone action( Phoenix) .700 bolt, so I practice what I preach.
9
985
Guest
dougm: Absolutely. The Remington 700 Long Action and the 338 NORMA are a Perfect Match.
I've been hearing nothing but good stuff about the .338 Norma Magnum as a long range target/game cartridge..... in fact I really didn't have any real interest in building a long range .338 until I talk with a few guy's about this one. It seems to have "balance" for the lack of other word, and great case design; something the bigger .338's are lacking. Anyone can put a .338 on the end of a large charge and call it good, this one seem to be thought out a bit more.
436
436
dougm
Well-Known Member
Well I'm sold. I ordered a barrel (23", 1:9.4), and dies, and just ordered brass from Jamison International.
Thanks to all for the great information.
Doug
Thanks to all for the great information.
Doug
Last edited:
9
985
Guest
I'm not certain about my velocity, however after cutting my barrel down to 22.8" with a 1:9.1 twist rate, it shoots solid 1/4" at 100 meters. The powder charge I am using at this time is 83.5 grains of reloader 22. (Not my favorite powder and you don't want to leave a cartridge in a warm chamber. The powder is too temperature sensitive.
9
985
Guest
The lead picture in the article is of a member of the CADRE at Ft. Benning holding one with a 22" barrel. It sure worked there. The difference between 22", 24" 26" and 28" long barrels is that the 28" is scrubbing the velocity down a bit and the 22" pipe does not stabilize the bullet as well at 100 meters; but it kicks but down range! l know that some of our "Teams" have been using 24" barrels with GREAT SUCCESS and feel that the 24" barrel is optimum.
