22 br cooper.

TheFishBox

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Messages
672
I was thinking about getting a cooper montana varminter in 22 br and was wondering if anyone has any experience with one. I can't find any info on the twist rate of the barrel.
I don't really have any reason to go with a 22 br other than the fact that I like the idea of one to complement my 6mm br.
 
A nice one FS over on 6mmBR./AccurateShooter.com classifieds......that one's a 1:12 twist.
(Not a Montana, though, fwiw).
 
GREAT ROUND I HAVE 2 22BR'S THEY'LL DO ANYTHING A 22-250 WILL DO WITH LESS POWDER !gun):D
 
I have a 22 BR. I built it to shoot 80 gr Nosler HPBT match bullets. It has an 8 twist 26" Bartlein barrel. I had the reamer built to seat the bullets out so the bottom of the bullet is flush with the bottom of the neck. So the taper of the boattail prevents "donut" issues with the bottom of the neck. I also built a .20 BR with similar design for the .204 55gr Berger. The .22 BR does what I intended it to do. It will shoot clay pigeons (4.25") at 550 yards at the clay bank at the back of the Club range. Actually complete clay pigeons are too easy, so I collect only the 2" clay pigeon centers from the trap field. I have used both R-17 and VV N-550 with accuracy. The VV N-550 will more nearly fill the case and shoots 80 gr bullets at close to 3000 fps.
 
Yeah...right!.....:rolleyes:

Whats your logic behind 'rolling your eyes'?! educate me please!

I am trying to choose a fast 6mm/22 cal cartridge.

It seems like nearly all 'vintage' varmint cartridges are being replaced by more efficient variations in same caliber that perform equally as well with less powder and heat.
 
Whats your logic behind 'rolling your eyes'?! educate me please!

I am trying to choose a fast 6mm/22 cal cartridge.

It seems like nearly all 'vintage' varmint cartridges are being replaced by more efficient variations in same caliber that perform equally as well with less powder and heat.

"Yeah right!!"... I'll second that motion :rolleyes::rolleyes:

There is no such thing as "vintage cartridges" being replaced with more efficient variations.

Just run any of the many handloading software programs - they ask for case volume, (in H2O), and bore size, and barrel length.

They don't ask how old the design is, or when it first appeared.

the 22 BR is 85% of the case volume of the 22-250, and it will develop 85% of the performance of the 22-250... there has never been any change in efficiency of cartridges - the .220 Swift, and the 22-250 date back some 80-ish years and they still run away from anything else except larger wildcats.

Built with the care and with the same quality components, the 22-250 and .220 Swift will be as accurate as a 22 BR, but hit a hellova lot harder.

As to which you should get - "I am trying to choose a fast 6mm/22 cal cartridge." ... the 22-250 will have much more value if you decide to sell it, and it will have much more performance while you own it.
 
Not trying to start an argument but a productive dialogue! So my question is why are are the hotshot benchrest shooters not using the - lets pick a better word - ' classic' cartridges? One would assume that if the classics shoot faster than they would be less effected by wind. Are they as accurate? Do their chambers 'fit' the new high bc bullets? Are the original twists made not suitable for the modern bullets? we all prioritize accuracy over speed. The competition guys dont care about barrel life so thats not a factor. They just want a bullet that will buck the wind and go into the same hole as often as possible out to 600 yds. So why are they all shooting 22br's and 20 cal and 6mm variants etc?? if their cartridges are the most accurate with chambers that can handle the new era long high bc bullets then it makes sense that we would want to be shooting the same as they do for varmints IF we want to shoot them at distance for the challenge.
Personally I dont get my rocks off by shooting mega varmints up close with small bullets to see them vaporize. Been there done that. I much prefer to shoot them at 500 yds +/- for the challenge of being able to hit them under adverse field conditions.

I had a 220 swift and also a 250 when I was young and had alot of fun with them. They were bad *** back then but in the 70s' and 80's it seems like the hobby shooters like us didnt get into all the technical garbo and strive for mini groups like we do now before we determine they are passable to take into the field!
 
Not trying to start an argument but a productive dialogue! So my question is why are are the hotshot benchrest shooters not using the - lets pick a better word - ' classic' cartridges? One would assume that if the classics shoot faster than they would be less effected by wind. Are they as accurate? Do their chambers 'fit' the new high BC bullets? Are the original twists made not suitable for the modern bullets? we all prioritize accuracy over speed. The competition guys don't care about barrel life so that's not a factor. They just want a bullet that will buck the wind and go into the same hole as often as possible out to 600 yds. So why are they all shooting 22br's and 20 cal and 6mm variants etc?? If their cartridges are the most accurate with chambers that can handle the new era long high BC bullets then it makes sense that we would want to be shooting the same as they do for varmints IF we want to shoot them at distance for the challenge.
Personally I don't get my rocks off by shooting mega varmints up close with small bullets to see them vaporize. Been there done that. I much prefer to shoot them at 500 yds +/- for the challenge of being able to hit them under adverse field conditions.

I had a 220 swift and also a [22-]250 when I was young and had a lot of fun with them. They were bad *** back then but in the 70s' and 80's it seems like the hobby shooters like us didn't get into all the technical garbo and strive for mini groups like we do now before we determine they are passable to take into the field!



Consider this:


The world's smallest group (0.009") was shot in 1973 with a "classic" cartridge - the plain ol' 222 Remington, and stood for 43 years - the record was shot at the time that the "new age" 6mm PPC existed, but it took 43 years to break it.


Benchrest shooters do not shoot "hotshot" cartridges - their cartridges run in the 3,200 to 3,400 fps range - it doesn't take a very big cartridge to make that level. The 222's, PPC's and BR's are small stuff.


They do not shoot heavy bullets - the typical bullets in short range bench are 52 grains in 224, and 62 to 68 grains in 6mm.
Very heavy bullets used in 1,000 bench have heavy jackets and are not effective on game.
Chambers can be made to fit any bullets - there are 223's shooting 90 grain bullets.
Hi BC bullets are NOT "New Erea"... they have been around for a loooong time.
 
Hey appreciate your input. I guess I am guilty of not doing the research on velocity comparisons between that 22br and similar vs comparable 'hunting' cartridges.

So there really isnt any magic case design or other that will make the same bullet go faster with less powder if pressure remains a constant!

I guess old Ackley was one of the first to seek improved 'factory' case dimensions and from what I have read his most notable accomplishment was to reduce case stretching by changing the body and shoulder angles. He was able to increase velocities but at the cost of higher pressures, which I believe he wasnt able to measure back then.

So the old 250 still rocks! and now you can get lapua brass for it. I will re-consider this cartridge option and even more if I can put together a 700 build with 2 rem/age barrels so I could take advantage of its performance with the small and large bullets. its a b***ch when your taste in optics usually cost as much as the rifle so the barrel switching option is appealing.
 
Hey appreciate your input. I guess I am guilty of not doing the research on velocity comparisons between that 22br and similar vs comparable 'hunting' cartridges.

So there really isnt any magic case design or other that will make the same bullet go faster with less powder if pressure remains a constant!

I guess old Ackley was one of the first to seek improved 'factory' case dimensions and from what I have read his most notable accomplishment was to reduce case stretching by changing the body and shoulder angles. He was able to increase velocities but at the cost of higher pressures, which I believe he wasn't able to measure back then.

So the old 250 still rocks! and now you can get lapua brass for it. I will re-consider this cartridge option and even more if I can put together a 700 build with 2 rem/age barrels so I could take advantage of its performance with the small and large bullets. its a b***ch when your taste in optics usually cost as much as the rifle so the barrel switching option is appealing.


I bought my first 22-250 (a 40-XB single shot) in 1975. Bought 400 pieces of Winchester brass with it, and a bigassed 15x Unertl Ultra-Varmint.

It was (and still is) a very cool rifle.

40-XB6mmRem-2.jpg


I burned out the first barrel on PD towns in South Dakota, and had it rebarreled. The 400 cases would fit in the new barrel with some resistance, but after the first firing, they fit fine. Burned that one on doggie towns and rebarreled it again. Burned that one out in SoDak too :)

On the forth barrel, the cases would not fit, no matter how hard I tried, so I broke down and bought (gasp)... an FL die. Sized all the cases once, and put the FL die away.

Then, when I burned out the fifth barrel, I was plain dog tired of the 22-250. I mean EVERYBODY and their sister had a 22-250.

So, I had it rebarreled to a 244 Remington with a 10" Twist.

I had actually "Sworn off" of the 22-250 about six years ago, after the rebarrel to 244 Rem. So I packed up the 22-250 Redding competition dies and I threw away all that brass (which now had about 45 loadings on each, and they were 35-ish years old) :(

But... about 5 years ago, Lapua came out with abso-friiggin'-lutly beautiful 22-250 cases.

About 3 months after that, a Rem 700 VSF just happened to follow me home for $500. It was a brand new rifle with a "badd barrel". The rifle was reputed to shoot 3" groups at best.

I bought it for the action, which was one of the smoothest 700 actions I ever handled.
The "Badd" barrel turned out to be a bad epoxy bedding job, and the following weekend, it was shooting in the mid 3's.

This past winter, another 22-250 found it's way into my life - a 40-XB stainless singleshot in a thumbhole stock, with 47 rounds through it. This gun shoots in the low 2's at 100 yds.

So, now I have two 22-250's.

The reason I am telling you this is...

There is a reason that "EVERYBODY and their sister has a 22-250."

It is one of the all time, great, very bestest high velocity varmint cartridges out there. You can get great brass, right out of the box.
Top of the line competition/benchrest quality dies are available through ANY mail-order house, and it has super resale value (because EVERYBODY and their sister want's a 22-250).

If you want something different than everyone else has - then get a 219 Hickenlooper Belted Nitro Express, and everyone will say, "Oooo Aaaah cool".

But if you get a quality 22-250, with a 12" or faster twist, you will be a happy camper.
 
Last edited:
Warning! This thread is more than 7 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.
Top