28 Nosler, Terrible barrel burner??

I'm thinking of building a .28 Nosler, but I have two 7mm Dakota rifles which I really like, accurate. There's no reloading data for the 7mm Dakota with the ne RE-23 or RE-26. My 7mm Dakota with the Krieger barrel is 5R, 1:9.5, the other is Sako 75 with Shilen 5 groove ratchet rifling, 1:9. Both will do 5 shot 5/8" or less @100 yards, just hunting rifles. The 28 Nosler is just going to be an experiment, built on a shot out 300 Ultra R.E.M. action. Anyone out there built a.28 with a decent barrel, accuracy ok? After experimenting with both my 7mm Dakotas I'm going to use a 4 groove 1:9.5 on the Nosler. Comments, and any load data for RE-23 or 26 for the 7mm Dakota? H-1000 has worked really well so far for me.
 
rsaxtonwyo said:
I'm thinking of building a .28 Nosler, but I have two 7mm Dakota rifles which I really like, accurate. There's no reloading data for the 7mm Dakota with the ne RE-23 or RE-26. My 7mm Dakota with the Krieger barrel is 5R, 1:9.5, the other is Sako 75 with Shilen 5 groove ratchet rifling, 1:9. Both will do 5 shot 5/8" or less @100 yards, just hunting rifles. The 28 Nosler is just going to be an experiment, built on a shot out 300 Ultra R.E.M. action. Anyone out there built a.28 with a decent barrel, accuracy ok? After experimenting with both my 7mm Dakotas I'm going to use a 4 groove 1:9.5 on the Nosler. Comments, and any load data for RE-23 or 26 for the 7mm Dakota? H-1000 has worked really well so far for me.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't go slower than 9" twist and really would do an 8" twist. Will have better performance in every way.

Steve
 
1:8 twist might work ok for a 7mm-08 in an AR, maybe not so good in a higher velocity 7mm like 28 Nosler, 7mm Dakota, or 7mm STW. 7mm WSM is 1:9.5, as are several other factory rifles. Twist rate shouldn't be any faster than required to stabilize the bullet, and a lot depends on rifling (4 groove or 5R Krieger, Pac-Nor polygon, Shilen Ratchet), I doubt any barrel maker or factory rifle would advise a 1:8 twist for a 160 grain bullet at 3300 fps. I've had very good accuracy with 1:9.35 and 1:9.5 twist with 168 Berger and Sierra bullets. Just my experience.
So, actually I was asking if anyone out there has used the RE-23 or RE-26 powder with the 7mm Dakota. I've used the RE-23, 74.2gr with 168 Sierra HPBT match, Fed 215 match, 3256 fps, very accurate, 5 shot 5/8" group @ 200 yards, 26" Shilen 1:9 ratchet 5 groove. Anyone with experience to compare with .28 Nosler, same type bullet etc. Alliant and Nosler hyped up the RE-26 and RE-23 for the 28 Nosler, but I notice the new Nosler reloading manual actually recommends Norma 217 as most accurate for 160 grain bullet. So, any experience on the 28, finicky for loads etc.?
 
I have a custom built 28 Nosler with a 1:8 twist 26" Brux barrel and it is not finicky on loads. If you plan to shoot 195gr Berger in the 28, you need a 1:8 twist, the two most accurate powders I have found are Retumbo for 180gr Berger HVLD and RL33 for 195gr Berger EOL, both of these rounds are seated .020 from the lands.
 
rsaxtonwyo said:
1:8 twist might work ok for a 7mm-08 in an AR, maybe not so good in a higher velocity 7mm like 28 Nosler, 7mm Dakota, or 7mm STW. 7mm WSM is 1:9.5, as are several other factory rifles. Twist rate shouldn't be any faster than required to stabilize the bullet, and a lot depends on rifling (4 groove or 5R Krieger, Pac-Nor polygon, Shilen Ratchet), I doubt any barrel maker or factory rifle would advise a 1:8 twist for a 160 grain bullet at 3300 fps. I've had very good accuracy with 1:9.35 and 1:9.5 twist with 168 Berger and Sierra bullets. Just my experience.
So, actually I was asking if anyone out there has used the RE-23 or RE-26 powder with the 7mm Dakota. I've used the RE-23, 74.2gr with 168 Sierra HPBT match, Fed 215 match, 3256 fps, very accurate, 5 shot 5/8" group @ 200 yards, 26" Shilen 1:9 ratchet 5 groove. Anyone with experience to compare with .28 Nosler, same type bullet etc. Alliant and Nosler hyped up the RE-26 and RE-23 for the 28 Nosler, but I notice the new Nosler reloading manual actually recommends Norma 217 as most accurate for 160 grain bullet. So, any experience on the 28, finicky for loads etc.?
Click to expand...

I don't want to talk you out of what you want to do. Comparing to factory twist rates is not good reason to stay as slow as they are. Pretty much the only factory rifles that are not on the slow side of twist rate are the 6.5's that are fairly new to the market sporting 8" twist. This is still not really fast but relatively faster than most factory rifles and able to handle higher bc bullets for cal than most other rifles.

I am a mono metal bullet maker and the slow twist barrels really limit your options when it comes to bullet choices. I will also say that with all of our testing faster twist barrels giving higher sg (stability factor) have better terminal performance for hunting. This will go for all bullets. My opinion after testing bullet impacts is that the 1.5sg that is considered fully stable for flight, should be considered a min for terminal performance. Stability closer to 2 is much more desirable.

As to the powder we have used the RL-26 in our 27 Nosler 7" twist running 168g bullets but it was too fast and we did much better with RL-33.

Steve
 
So, you're giving me advice on 6.5 caliber and '27' Nosler. Actually I was asking about the 28 Nosler, for the most part reputable bullet makers that publish reloading manuals do quite a bit of research before they publish and I believe they are fairly accurate as to what bullets and twist rates do best. My questions was basically aimed at 160-168 grain 7mm bullets info on the 28 Nosler. Hornady made the 162 Amax that was shown as requiring 1:8 twist, but they discontinued them, for good reason. There's a lot of wanna be bullet makers, but not many have the resources to do all the testing, different powders, bullet designs, spend money on decent test barrels, pressure testing etc. that Sierra, Nosler, Lapua, Hornady, Speer and the rest. Trusting the top reloading manuals as a starting point save me a lot of time and money, plus Alliant an Hodgden website data.
 
A 9 twist will shoot a 168 fine and my 9 shoots 175s fine but an 8 will as well AND will allow you to run the 195. It's not like a 8 will "overtwist" a 168 AND as Hammer said the higher SG results in better terminal performance.. Increased RPM=Increased damage.
 
rsaxtonwyo said:
So, you're giving me advice on 6.5 caliber and '27' Nosler. Actually I was asking about the 28 Nosler, for the most part reputable bullet makers that publish reloading manuals do quite a bit of research before they publish and I believe they are fairly accurate as to what bullets and twist rates do best. My questions was basically aimed at 160-168 grain 7mm bullets info on the 28 Nosler. Hornady made the 162 Amax that was shown as requiring 1:8 twist, but they discontinued them, for good reason. There's a lot of wanna be bullet makers, but not many have the resources to do all the testing, different powders, bullet designs, spend money on decent test barrels, pressure testing etc. that Sierra, Nosler, Lapua, Hornady, Speer and the rest. Trusting the top reloading manuals as a starting point save me a lot of time and money, plus Alliant an Hodgden website data.
Click to expand...

Sorry I said anything. You are right and you have it all figured out. 24hr Camp Fire would be a better fit for you.

Steve
 
factory rifle barrels are set up with twist rates to run commonly available factory ammo. If I was building a 7mm of any flavor it would be an 1:8. As said above it will allow you to run the 160 +/- bullets great but also will allow the 180+ gr bullets to stabilize. The only time too much twist becomes an issue is on super light jacketed varmint bullets.

With the velocity possible in a properly built 28 Nosler with a 1:7.5 a guy can realize BC's over .8 with some bullets, same BC bumps for all bullet weights assuming they are stable.

My 7wsm is 1:9 and if I did it over it would be a 1:8.

Hornady put out a article that supports mine and the other posters statements while totally blowing away your theory on twist rsaxtonwy. For example check the BC figures for the 180gr eld-m, swapping a 1:7.5 twist for the recommended 1:8.5 twist gains a guy .04 BC on its own, not inconsequential in the long range game.

For your reading pleasure:
Ballistic Coefficient - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc
 
MallardAddict said:
factory rifle barrels are set up with twist rates to run commonly available factory ammo. If I was building a 7mm of any flavor it would be an 1:8. As said above it will allow you to run the 160 +/- bullets great but also will allow the 180+ gr bullets to stabilize. The only time too much twist becomes an issue is on super light jacketed varmint bullets.

With the velocity possible in a properly built 28 Nosler with a 1:7.5 a guy can realize BC's over .8 with some bullets, same BC bumps for all bullet weights assuming they are stable.

My 7wsm is 1:9 and if I did it over it would be a 1:8.

Hornady put out a article that supports mine and the other posters statements while totally blowing away your theory on twist rsaxtonwy. For example check the BC figures for the 180gr eld-m, swapping a 1:7.5 twist for the recommended 1:8.5 twist gains a guy .04 BC on its own, not inconsequential in the long range game.

For your reading pleasure:
Ballistic Coefficient - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc
Click to expand...

Thanks Mallardaddict. Guess I'm not just some dumb run of the mill bullet maker.

Bullets of all kinds are much better made today than they were years ago and can handle the faster twist rates better now. Concentricity of the bullets is better also and the theory of over stabilization is no longer valid. Bullets like ours simply can not be over spun, and all bullets perform better on game when used at higher stability factors. I know that when Nemo was testing their 300wm they found that they got better accuracy beyond 1000y when they over stabilized the bullets. They found 1-8" twist to work the best. I know that I am now giving advise on a 30cal and will be considered out of line to some on this thread.

Good Independence Day to all.

Steve
 
Steve,
You know your **** my man and your products are amazing from the reviews I have read. One day I will give them a shot.

I was always a huge Berger fan in the past but now am in ELD-m mode due to cost as I'm the sole breadwinner in the house and have a little one that takes up most of my expendable income.
 
rsaxtonwyo said:
So, you're giving me advice on 6.5 caliber and '27' Nosler. Actually I was asking about the 28 Nosler, for the most part reputable bullet makers that publish reloading manuals do quite a bit of research before they publish and I believe they are fairly accurate as to what bullets and twist rates do best. My questions was basically aimed at 160-168 grain 7mm bullets info on the 28 Nosler. Hornady made the 162 Amax that was shown as requiring 1:8 twist, but they discontinued them, for good reason. There's a lot of wanna be bullet makers, but not many have the resources to do all the testing, different powders, bullet designs, spend money on decent test barrels, pressure testing etc. that Sierra, Nosler, Lapua, Hornady, Speer and the rest. Trusting the top reloading manuals as a starting point save me a lot of time and money, plus Alliant an Hodgden website data.
Click to expand...

Steve had a great suggestion, some other forum could be better for you.
 
One of the most bizarre shooting things I've ever witnessed was the result of bullets disintegrating. A friend of mine was shooting a .243 AI with a black star barrel in 8 twist !! Shooting a 105-7 bullets from a reputable manufacturer during an actual match, he was having trouble hitting the 200 yard sighter target, my son noticed that nothing was even hitting the dirt anywhere near the target either..after his firing line was done and made safe all the guys gather round to watch..about 20 feet from the barrel for a millisecond there was a bright glow that looked like oil on water, the bullets were coming apart and I guess what we saw was the copper/lead going into the gas state or maybe plasma, everyone was amazed and surprised that it could happen, especially from this manufacturer.., never seen it before or since.. Tried to capture it with my camera but these digitals are to slow for that...
 
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