Bone to pick with new rifle owners - 100 yards out of the box

Might be all that, but I'd surmise it's even more benign than that. Phil Harvey's "the rest of the show" saying often is forgotten when information is transfered on the internet/tv/magazines/sportsmans gun counter...

As such partial information gets relayed, usually only the juicy bits.

I'll give an example, a childhood friend of mine once shot clays off the back deck of my boat with his 45. It was kinda his parlor trick with a pretty decent hit %. Onlookers were pretty wowed by the feat.

You could ask about his gun, his technique and his aftermarket sights. Could even sorta understand or at least try to understand when he says he practices a lot... but the rest of the story was a bit more complex.

He was an accomplished shooter before wntering the service, clear back to childhood. He was divorced right at the end of the service so didn't have much social going on. Took a high paaying miserable job to squirrel away money for a year or so to make his transition to college easier. He drove a beater, ate cheap food and lived in a rented room... to keep himself entertained he went to the range when he wasn't at work. Figures he shot 5 figures worth of ammo in about 18 months in just that gun (at Bush administration ammo prices). Were talking borderline obsession level range time.

Now that's "the rest of the story"... hrs and hrs of practice every day for more than a year. Never mind some innate skill and early age introduction combined with the funds to make it all happen.

The issue is, honest observers could accurately tell you they saw him use x gun, y ammo and open sights to shoot clays... doesn't mean 99.9% of people have the capacity much less the resources to duplicate the whole story of the feat.


Truth is shots 500+ take skills and practice to master, heck just wind reading takes many many hrs. To a certain extent many shooting skills atrophy, wind reading certainly seems to for me. Problem is half the story, the easy technical bits are available on forums and YouTube even the TV. Fair enough, those are the actionable bits bullets/barrels/stocks/range finders etc. But it's easy to try and group the knowledge/application in with the technical. It's a lot easier to watch a 20 minute video on wind judging, than to spend hrs and hrs afield applying it.

Families/careers/Heath it all takes priority, only natural we in the west would like to hit the easy button and buy our way in.

On the actionable front, maybe those of us on the forums can add a few more words per post and try and frame "the rest of the story". Could potentially better frame the sport as well as better educate newbies.
 
If you think about it, the inability to accept the challenge of shooting even moderate range is really the reflection of our society today.
  • Instant gratification and or instant success
  • Do not want to put in the time to achieve the result.
  • No responsibility
  • No accountability
  • Cannot focus on a task for any length of time.
  • Zero patience and or desire to learn
  • Iphone social media mentality that removes ability for actual hands on effort. Cannot assign time off media devices
  • Personal Failure results in therapy
  • Cannot understand "Failure breeds success" concept.
I try to be extra patient helping at range but it would be nice to just shoot and not hold hands. But if the effort results in getting someone to turn the "corner", I believe it only helps our sport and passion. The problem is the lack of willingness to learn or take the time. JMO.
 
I heard Gentry makes a 3-position safety for Remington 700. That's all I know about it though as I am not a Remington man.
 
There was an excellent thread on just this subject, I THINK it was in the Rifle Country forum over on The High Road. Some of the stories were incredible! There are most definitely people out there who have no business with a firearm period, much less shooting it at a living thing.
 
I agree with your assessment that as the range gets longer the difficulty goes up substantially. However the same guys that miss at 500 are far more likely to have a bad hit at 200! Trigger time makes a big difference, for some more than other but it still relivent.
I agree, I had shot paper with guys that have all the equipment but have learned to shoot or spent the time on the trigger learning their DOPE. I shot with someone who adjusted his scope according to his kestrel and still couldn't hit the target. I shot his gun and put them on target. He hadn't learned to read the wind, he expected the kestrel to read the wing all the way to the target. If he spent the time on the trigger he wouldn't have this issue
 
You mean you can't just head down WallyBela'sScheel'sWharehouse and have slap that NXS on a Proof killa and go hunt?

I paid $10,00 for this hunt and they guarantee this system will me minute of angle.

After all, the DOPE is verified on the $110 box of ammo I bought for it, says right there in the chart.
 
Bone to pick and advice. Over the past ten years, we have seen a massive growth in out of the box 1000 yard capable rifles. Set up amazingly, built incredibly well and topped with amazing glass. Even engineered ammo. Then add ranging binos and ballistics calculators and you have a pretty amazing set up. True

If you buy one of these, awesome. SHOOT IT before you show up in camp. SO many times, I have been in camp trueing my D.O.P.E. and had some person show up with a rifle they have never shot and expecting to shoot their animal. They sit down, start shooting and wonder why they arent hitting the 500 yard target I set up.

Its because no one who cannot shoot 500 should try to shoot 500. Further more, shooting 600 is not a little harder than 500, its way harder. Just like shooting 1000 is not 2x as hard as shooting 500. NO its 10x harder. Especially in the field!! Especially with untested rifle, ammo, and hunter.

I have seen a few animals wounded and die terrible, long and painful deaths. Seen a few even not be recovered that were shot very badly. Please, show up ready to be an ethical hunter rather than showing up with bravado and ego. There is a reason military shooters have DOPE, so they hit the target correctly the first time! Then, true their dope...its takes time but the animal deserves it.
Boy do I agree with you, know one guy, spent over 6K on this custom rifle he purchased, 300 PRC, brought it to my private 400 yd range, you had to almost pound the bolt to go to battery, and opening it , well get a hammer, the target looked like a shotgun was shot at it. I said if it were me I'd send the ____ back to the custom builder. They told him it was already to take hunting, and it was under .50 moa @100 yd. It wouldn't get 2 shots to be under 8" apart, He took my partners gun and went hunting for BLK bear. Never shot it either, he got one but wasn't a long shot. People have no idea of what they are doing sometimes. but they were never in the military either and learned how to shoot.
 
I agree, I had shot paper with guys that have all the equipment but have learned to shoot or spent the time on the trigger learning their DOPE. I shot with someone who adjusted his scope according to his kestrel and still couldn't hit the target. I shot his gun and put them on target. He hadn't learned to read the wind, he expected the kestrel to read the wing all the way to the target. If he spent the time on the trigger he wouldn't have this issue
 
Bone to pick and advice. Over the past ten years, we have seen a massive growth in out of the box 1000 yard capable rifles. Set up amazingly, built incredibly well and topped with amazing glass. Even engineered ammo. Then add ranging binos and ballistics calculators and you have a pretty amazing set up. True

If you buy one of these, awesome. SHOOT IT before you show up in camp. SO many times, I have been in camp trueing my D.O.P.E. and had some person show up with a rifle they have never shot and expecting to shoot their animal. They sit down, start shooting and wonder why they arent hitting the 500 yard target I set up.

Its because no one who cannot shoot 500 should try to shoot 500. Further more, shooting 600 is not a little harder than 500, its way harder. Just like shooting 1000 is not 2x as hard as shooting 500. NO its 10x harder. Especially in the field!! Especially with untested rifle, ammo, and hunter.

I have seen a few animals wounded and die terrible, long and painful deaths. Seen a few even not be recovered that were shot very badly. Please, show up ready to be an ethical hunter rather than showing up with bravado and ego. There is a reason military shooters have DOPE, so they hit the target correctly the first time! Then, true their dope...its takes time but the animal deserves it.
What a great thread,I totally agree.I target shoot at 1000yds and 1200yds and its easy to understand, if you can't consistently group shots in the V bull at these distances you should not be shooting at animals.Unfortunately a lot of shooters have little or no understanding of long range ballistics.The next thing they need to buy after the rifle is a chronograph.
 
My son was in 82 airborne kicking in doors in the middle of the night in Mosul. He could shoot tiny groups with his pistol and ar 15. Took him pig hunting in Texas when he came home. He shot a 280 lb boar right behind the ear at 75 yards, saw a group of three pigs at 500 yards and before I could compensate for the cross wind he shot at the three and missed with the 308 ar He was using. Could not believe what I just saw. Goes to show you it takes practice, practice, practice to shoot 500, 600 yards or longer.
 
Come on guys---- this is life in general now--- everyone wants their food now, their amazon orders now, and everything for free. Yet people spend thousands on fancy gear they have no clue how to use.

I know gobs of people who have no idea how to check- let alone change oil in their car. Some don't know how to fill the wiper fluid either.

People show up to golf, with brand new high dollar clubs/gear and never hit a ball in their life before.

Archery shooters that don't know what the word "spline" means.

Snowboarders and skiers with thousands Into their gear that have never been on a chairlift before.

People that own a stihl or husky that don't know how to sharpen a blade.

Guys on carbonfiber ultralight bicycles with super tight clothes that get tired riding after a few miles.

I've seen guys on $50k motorcycles that can barely keep them standing at a stop light.

I could go on and on

People spend $1500 on a phone so they can text and watch YouTube

$10 cups of coffee, $3k shoes, $100k trucks ......

The thing that gets me about people that can't shoot but show up for hunting is that they got through hunters Ed/safety classes and passed--- maybe that's where we should be looking to improve the"system"--- a little more shooting proficiency, general knowledge, etc needs to be taught before giving them the "license" to go kill animals.
But we all know that any time the gooberment gets involved they just screw it up more.
 
The most comforting (sarcasm) thought to me is when I am hunting public land for elk in Colorado, I am in the woods with folks like this. I have lost a couple of animals in fifty years of hunting, and it made me sick every time, but bullets flying around me shot by guys that really have no place in the woods bothers me more. If they don't know how to shoot, what are the chances they understand gun safety at all?
 
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