Improving the 308 Win performance

I disagree with you as I have taken caribou at 400 with no problem.plus moose near that range. I also know the 308 can take a elk at 600 yards,helped pack it out. The right bullet and someone that knows his rifle. The longest sniper kill with a 308 is 2700 yards. You can look it up. I agree most people should get inside of 400 but the 308 round will take animals past 600 if the shooter knows his rifle and has practiced alot
Fact Check: The longest .308/7.62x51 recorded verified kill was done in Iraq, and was about 1367 yards. "The longest confirmed kill shot with a 7.62x51 round (which is an equivalent round in virtually all respects excepting chamber pressure, which is slightly lower), was made at a distance of 1250m (1367 yards), by Staff Sergeant Jim Gilliand, in September 2005, using an M-24 sniper rifle." He was in the 2nd Bn, 69th Armored Regiment, USA. He was engaging an enemy sniper that had been killing and wounding our soldiers, and his shot was done as a spoiling shot. He was very surprised that he hit his target, as it was WELL beyond the 7.62X51's effective range. Look it up. Your 2700 yard shot was taken with a Barret Light 50 in Afghanistan. The longest recorded shot was also with a 50 cal, specifically a McMillan, and was a whopping 3,871 yards. It was done by a Canadian sniper in JTF-2 in 2017. His name was withheld by his unit. The longest 30-06 sniping shot confirmed was actually made in WWI and was by SGM (American Expeditionary Forces) Herbert Sleigh at 1400 yards. Every verified kill beyond 1476 yards was made by a 50 BMG or by a 338 Lapua, with the exception of a couple of snipers who used the 14.5X144mm Russian Heavy Machine Gun round. These are verified hits by the US and other Militaries.
 
Fact Check: The longest .308/7.62x51 recorded verified kill was done in Iraq, and was about 1367 yards. "The longest confirmed kill shot with a 7.62x51 round (which is an equivalent round in virtually all respects excepting chamber pressure, which is slightly lower), was made at a distance of 1250m (1367 yards), by Staff Sergeant Jim Gilliand, in September 2005, using an M-24 sniper rifle." He was in the 2nd Bn, 69th Armored Regiment, USA. He was engaging an enemy sniper that had been killing and wounding our soldiers, and his shot was done as a spoiling shot. He was very surprised that he hit his target, as it was WELL beyond the 7.62X51's effective range. Look it up. Your 2700 yard shot was taken with a Barret Light 50 in Afghanistan. The longest recorded shot was also with a 50 cal, specifically a McMillan, and was a whopping 3,871 yards. It was done by a Canadian sniper in JTF-2 in 2017. His name was withheld by his unit. The longest 30-06 sniping shot confirmed was actually made in WWI and was by SGM (American Expeditionary Forces) Herbert Sleigh at 1400 yards. Every verified kill beyond 1476 yards was made by a 50 BMG or by a 338 Lapua, with the exception of a couple of snipers who used the 14.5X144mm Russian Heavy Machine Gun round. These are verified hits by the US and other Militaries.
Sir, I am sure that you researched all of your facts. If so, this does show folks can get a bit outrageous with claims. Could you please provide references? Googling tends to give folks the information they want because someone said so.

It would just end the discussion on distance and the 308. Thanks.
 
Fact Check: The longest .308/7.62x51 recorded verified kill was done in Iraq, and was about 1367 yards. "The longest confirmed kill shot with a 7.62x51 round (which is an equivalent round in virtually all respects excepting chamber pressure, which is slightly lower), was made at a distance of 1250m (1367 yards), by Staff Sergeant Jim Gilliand, in September 2005, using an M-24 sniper rifle." He was in the 2nd Bn, 69th Armored Regiment, USA. He was engaging an enemy sniper that had been killing and wounding our soldiers, and his shot was done as a spoiling shot. He was very surprised that he hit his target, as it was WELL beyond the 7.62X51's effective range. Look it up. Your 2700 yard shot was taken with a Barret Light 50 in Afghanistan. The longest recorded shot was also with a 50 cal, specifically a McMillan, and was a whopping 3,871 yards. It was done by a Canadian sniper in JTF-2 in 2017. His name was withheld by his unit. The longest 30-06 sniping shot confirmed was actually made in WWI and was by SGM (American Expeditionary Forces) Herbert Sleigh at 1400 yards. Every verified kill beyond 1476 yards was made by a 50 BMG or by a 338 Lapua, with the exception of a couple of snipers who used the 14.5X144mm Russian Heavy Machine Gun round. These are verified hits by the US and other Militaries.
I remember that Canadian story. He was a member of Princess Patricia's Light Infantry. His name was/is Craig Harrison
 
Sir, I am sure that you researched all of your facts. If so, this does show folks can get a bit outrageous with claims. Could you please provide references? Googling tends to give folks the information they want because someone said so.

It would just end the discussion on distance and the 308. Thanks.



The Best Shot in Iraq (3/4mi w/.308)

The Best Shot in Iraq
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...01.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/01/01/ixnewstop.html


sniper.jpg


US Sniper Takes Out Insurgent at 1,250 Meters

Toby Harnden in Ramadi
The Telegraph (UK)

Gazing through the telescopic sight of his M24 rifle, Staff Sgt Jim Gilliland, leader of Shadow sniper team, fixed his eye on the Iraqi insurgent who had just killed an American soldier.

His quarry stood nonchalantly in the fourth-floor bay window of a hospital in battle-torn Ramadi, still clasping a long-barreled Kalashnikov. Instinctively allowing for wind speed and bullet drop, Shadow's commander aimed 12 feet high.

A single shot hit the Iraqi in the chest and killed him instantly. It had been fired from a range of 1,250 meters, well beyond the capacity of the powerful Leupold sight, accurate to 1,000 meters.

"I believe it is the longest confirmed kill in Iraq with a 7.62mm rifle," said Staff Sgt Gilliland, 28, who hunted squirrels in Double Springs, Alabama from the age of five before progressing to deer - and then people.

"He was visible only from the waist up. It was a one in a million shot. I could probably shoot a whole box of ammunition and never hit him again."

Later that day, Staff Sgt Gilliland found out that the dead soldier was Staff Sgt Jason Benford, 30, a good friend.

The insurgent was one of between 55 and 65 he estimates that he has shot dead in less than five months, putting him within striking distance of sniper legends such as Carlos Hathcock, who recorded 93 confirmed kills in Vietnam. One of his men, Specialist Aaron Arnold, 22, of Medway, Ohio, has chalked up a similar tally.

"It was elating, but only afterwards," said Staff Sgt Gilliland, recalling the September 27 shot. "At the time, there was no high-fiving. You've got troops under fire, taking casualties and you're not thinking about anything other than finding a target and putting it down. Every shot is for the betterment of our cause."

All told, the 10-strong Shadow sniper team, attached to Task Force 2/69, has killed just under 200 in the same period and emerged as the US Army's secret weapon in Ramadi against the threat of the hidden Improvised Explosive Device (IED) or roadside bomb - the insurgency's deadliest tactic.

Above the spot from which Staff Sgt Gilliland took his record shot, in a room at the top of a bombed-out observation post which is code-named Hotel and known jokingly to soldiers as the Ramadi Inn, are daubed "Kill Them All" and "Kill Like you Mean it".

On another wall are scrawled the words of Senator John McCain: "America is great not because of what she has done for herself but because of what she has done for others."

The juxtaposition of macho slogans and noble political rhetoric encapsulates the dirty, dangerous and often callous job the sniper has to carry out as an integral part of a campaign ultimately being waged to help the Iraqi people.

With masterful understatement, Lt Col Robert Roggeman, the Task Force 2/69 commander, conceded: "The romantic in me is disappointed with the reception we've received in Ramadi," a town of 400,000 on the banks of the Euphrates where graffiti boasts, with more than a degree of accuracy: "This is the graveyard of the Americans".

"We're the outsiders, the infidels," he said. "Every time somebody goes out that main gate he might not come back. It's still a running gun battle."

Highly effective though they are, he worries about the burden his snipers have to bear. "It's a very God-like role. They have the power of life and death that, if not held in check, can run out of control. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

"Every shot has to be measured against the Rules of Engagement [ROE], positive identification and proportionality."

Staff Sgt Gilliland explains that his Shadow team operates at the "borderlines" of the ROE, making snap judgments about whether a figure in the crosshairs is an insurgent or not.

"Hunters give their animals respect," he said, spitting out a mouthful of chewing tobacco. "If you have no respect for what you do you're not going to be very good or you're going to make a mistake. We try to give the benefit of the doubt.

"You've got to live with it. It's on your conscience. It's something you've got to carry away with you. And if you shoot somebody just walking down the street, then that's probably going to haunt you."

Although killing with a single shot carries an enormous cachet within the sniper world, their most successful engagements have involved the shooting a up to 10 members of a single IED team.

"The one-shot-one-kill thing is one of beauty but killing all the bad dudes is even more attractive," said Staff Sgt Gilliland, whose motto is "Move fast, shoot straight and leave the rest to the counselors in 10 years" and signs off his e-mails with "silent souls make.308 holes".

Whether Shadow team's work will ultimately make a difference in Iraq is open to question. No matter how many insurgents they shoot, there seems no shortage of recruits to plant bombs.

Col John Gronski, the overall United States commander in Ramadi, said there could not be a military solution. "You could spend years putting snipers out and killing IED emplacers and at the political level it would make no difference."

As they prepare to leave Iraq, however, Staff Sgt Gilliland and his men hope that they have bought a little more time for the country's politicians to fix peace and stability in their sights.












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Here's the article.
 
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I haven't read all 90 pages. The first thing that comes to mind is maybe you can't improve the common as muck.308. It's a pretty popular round in Australia. Readily available and affordable ammo.
Myself, I'm currently reloading 124gn Hammer Hunter loads because they are accurate and fast. .
 
I haven't read all 90 pages. The first thing that comes to mind is maybe you can't improve the common as muck.308. It's a pretty popular round in Australia. Readily available and affordable ammo.
Myself, I'm currently reloading 124gn Hammer Hunter loads because they are accurate and fast. .
What's your load?

How is it performing on game?

I'm wondering if that bullet would perform well on larger game, the hammers penetrate very well.
 
What's your load?

How is it performing on game?

I'm wondering if that bullet would perform well on larger game, the hammers penetrate very well.
I use an ADI Australian made powder known as AR2206H also bottled as Hodgdon 4835.

I loaded our ADI milsurp cases from memory with the thicker brass or less capacity. I have gone as far as about 46gn in my Tikka from memory.

I settled on the most accurate load.

Being lighter and copper I expect them to be hitting like a heavier cup and core .

The rifle was rebarrelled by a good gunsmith so I expect that explains some improvement in accuracy.

I mostly shoot pest animals so dead is dead I'm not recovering bullets.
 
I remember that Canadian story. He was a member of Princess Patricia's Light Infantry. His name was/is Craig Harrison
Sorry but Craig Harrison was a Corporal of the Horse in the british Army. MOD released his name and a contract was put out on him - thankfully not fulfilled.

 
His quarry stood nonchalantly in the fourth-floor bay window of a hospital in battle-torn Ramadi, still clasping a long-barreled Kalashnikov. Instinctively allowing for wind speed and bullet drop, Shadow's commander aimed 12 feet high.
Hold up a second. I absolutely don't want to detract from this man's accomplishment at all. But, holding 12 feet high? That's not even close to the holdover for a shot like that.

Shooting 175gr SMK federal ammo (a fairly standard load) with a 200 yard zero results in a drop of 80 feet at 1350 yards. Maybe he dialed his turret to max and still needed 12 feet of holdover, but that's not how this reads to me.
 

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