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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
New .338 Cal-210gr Hammer HHT
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<blockquote data-quote="fordy" data-source="post: 3094178" data-attributes="member: 120504"><p>Gday quintus </p><p></p><p></p><p>That's a great discussion right there in your post above & if you or others would like to dabble in hypotheticals I'm all in </p><p></p><p>So on the outside looking in & a little assumption on our parts & just take a touch off your 236 load so not inflating one against the other </p><p>& Using old thumb rule of 100 fps per 10 gr </p><p>The following seem fairly realistic </p><p></p><p>The 210 @3350</p><p>The 220 @3250</p><p>The hypothetical 235 @ 3100</p><p></p><p>Now add the part of a bear with a arrow in it & oh how I'm out of my depth here <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🙈" title="See-no-evil monkey :see_no_evil:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f648.png" data-shortname=":see_no_evil:" /></p><p>Which needs to be despatched asap & as quickly as possible ( 2 different things in my mind ) </p><p></p><p>So this would be a frontal shot & one that needs to knock the stuffing out of him quick really quick ( no delayed killing here would be wanted ) </p><p></p><p>So this gives us some parameters to work with or should say towards & in my mind the following applies </p><p></p><p>Range : </p><p>be 5 to 50 yard on outside chance of following up a hit bear & it erupts from 50 yard <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤷♂️" title="Man shrugging :man_shrugging:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" />( once again huge assumption on my part but trying for conversation & hypothetical) so range would be from there & in </p><p></p><p>Velocity impact : </p><p>This leaves us with ea pill loosing around 2fps per yard as a yardstick </p><p>So 10 to 100 fps for the 5 &50 yard mark </p><p></p><p>Now we get into the depths of impacts & what they do to critters & once again broadly speaking as it ultimately comes down to pill design & characteristics that will give us our true results of a pill's capabilities </p><p></p><p>So I'll leave this for a second & go to the next part as without looking @ this first it dosent matter how fast or slow you impact your potentially in for a world of hurt real quickly </p><p></p><p>So it's onto </p><p></p><p>Penertration requirements : </p><p></p><p>You put stem to stern on a 9ft bear </p><p>Which I assume the following you'll need around 40 in of penertration to reach the gut on a frontal but I don't like to just reach I want more as compression comes in here & the last 1/4 to 1/3 of total penertration is basically useless in a wound channel as the best work it will do is in the firs 2/3 to 3/4 of penertration capabilities </p><p></p><p>So I want 50 in total penertration </p><p></p><p>So can the pills named above give that <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤷♂️" title="Man shrugging :man_shrugging:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" /></p><p>I can only work on what I've seen & saw information with a great guy that helped me gather information on the 210 hht & on those tests recently </p><p>We found penetration capabilities of 31in & fairly tough resistance in some of that length with the shank & couple petals @ that length showing no real slowdown in the shanks speed ( it will have , just still gave a nice wound channel ) so I'm going to assume it would get close to to the 50 in mark for total penetration or close to it </p><p></p><p>So that being the lightest & if the other 2 pills behave exactly the same ( which I highly doubt ) all 3 are going to give adequate penertration so no clear winner here & now need to go back to the velocity impact </p><p></p><p>So on these numbers I'll put a x through the 235 as it's impact will be around 3000 while no slouch it will potentially show a slight less critter reaction & when you impact @3200 plus things just step up another notch ( a balanced pill for that application is still paramount not just speed) </p><p></p><p>So leaves me with the 210&220 as those will be around that 3200 plus mark impact but the 210 has it covered @the 50 yard mark no doubt </p><p></p><p>So the next part of the equation is why not lighter again & get to 3500 plus impacts </p><p></p><p>I'd be extremely conservative on this approach on the big nasty critters & need to do some pretty extensive testing before I'd be happy to even contemplate that idea in this hypothetical case as I'm assuming that penertration would be lessened a fair bit & back to the 3 ft total penetration length with a 180ish weight pill to get 3600 MV to get to those 3500 impact levels </p><p>That's based off the capability's of the 175hh & 205ph shank weights but is definitely only a theory base & was just to get people ticking on a application of merit to one's specific requirements & I do believe over penetration is definitely better than under especially with these guys more so </p><p></p><p>& lastly once again I've got no idea on bears so I'd love to delve a little deeper/further so I can understand what you guys are up against & I may be able to relate another critters terminal results in a better format than I just put up in my head as I'm totally @ sea with bears </p><p>Eg a big cat needs velocity to shut them down quickly & you put a big slow meplat into one & fair chance he will make it to you to say gday <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="😜" title="Winking face with tongue :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61c.png" data-shortname=":stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:" /><img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤣" title="Rolling on the floor laughing :rofl:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f923.png" data-shortname=":rofl:" /> unless cns is impacted </p><p>So do bears react the same <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤷♂️" title="Man shrugging :man_shrugging:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" /> or is it a knock the locomotion out like is best on elephant <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤷♂️" title="Man shrugging :man_shrugging:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" />( I don't think so ) or a combination like on buff <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤷♂️" title="Man shrugging :man_shrugging:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" />or something else as these bears intrigue me a fair bit ( that's follow up like in this example of quintas but still has similar traits to normal shots imo ) </p><p></p><p>Looking forward if anyone wants to chew the fat & school me better on bears </p><p></p><p>Cheers</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="fordy, post: 3094178, member: 120504"] Gday quintus That’s a great discussion right there in your post above & if you or others would like to dabble in hypotheticals I’m all in So on the outside looking in & a little assumption on our parts & just take a touch off your 236 load so not inflating one against the other & Using old thumb rule of 100 fps per 10 gr The following seem fairly realistic The 210 @3350 The 220 @3250 The hypothetical 235 @ 3100 Now add the part of a bear with a arrow in it & oh how I’m out of my depth here 🙈 Which needs to be despatched asap & as quickly as possible ( 2 different things in my mind ) So this would be a frontal shot & one that needs to knock the stuffing out of him quick really quick ( no delayed killing here would be wanted ) So this gives us some parameters to work with or should say towards & in my mind the following applies Range : be 5 to 50 yard on outside chance of following up a hit bear & it erupts from 50 yard 🤷♂️( once again huge assumption on my part but trying for conversation & hypothetical) so range would be from there & in Velocity impact : This leaves us with ea pill loosing around 2fps per yard as a yardstick So 10 to 100 fps for the 5 &50 yard mark Now we get into the depths of impacts & what they do to critters & once again broadly speaking as it ultimately comes down to pill design & characteristics that will give us our true results of a pill’s capabilities So I’ll leave this for a second & go to the next part as without looking @ this first it dosent matter how fast or slow you impact your potentially in for a world of hurt real quickly So it’s onto Penertration requirements : You put stem to stern on a 9ft bear Which I assume the following you’ll need around 40 in of penertration to reach the gut on a frontal but I don’t like to just reach I want more as compression comes in here & the last 1/4 to 1/3 of total penertration is basically useless in a wound channel as the best work it will do is in the firs 2/3 to 3/4 of penertration capabilities So I want 50 in total penertration So can the pills named above give that 🤷♂️ I can only work on what I’ve seen & saw information with a great guy that helped me gather information on the 210 hht & on those tests recently We found penetration capabilities of 31in & fairly tough resistance in some of that length with the shank & couple petals @ that length showing no real slowdown in the shanks speed ( it will have , just still gave a nice wound channel ) so I’m going to assume it would get close to to the 50 in mark for total penetration or close to it So that being the lightest & if the other 2 pills behave exactly the same ( which I highly doubt ) all 3 are going to give adequate penertration so no clear winner here & now need to go back to the velocity impact So on these numbers I’ll put a x through the 235 as it’s impact will be around 3000 while no slouch it will potentially show a slight less critter reaction & when you impact @3200 plus things just step up another notch ( a balanced pill for that application is still paramount not just speed) So leaves me with the 210&220 as those will be around that 3200 plus mark impact but the 210 has it covered @the 50 yard mark no doubt So the next part of the equation is why not lighter again & get to 3500 plus impacts I’d be extremely conservative on this approach on the big nasty critters & need to do some pretty extensive testing before I’d be happy to even contemplate that idea in this hypothetical case as I’m assuming that penertration would be lessened a fair bit & back to the 3 ft total penetration length with a 180ish weight pill to get 3600 MV to get to those 3500 impact levels That’s based off the capability’s of the 175hh & 205ph shank weights but is definitely only a theory base & was just to get people ticking on a application of merit to one’s specific requirements & I do believe over penetration is definitely better than under especially with these guys more so & lastly once again I’ve got no idea on bears so I’d love to delve a little deeper/further so I can understand what you guys are up against & I may be able to relate another critters terminal results in a better format than I just put up in my head as I’m totally @ sea with bears Eg a big cat needs velocity to shut them down quickly & you put a big slow meplat into one & fair chance he will make it to you to say gday 😜🤣 unless cns is impacted So do bears react the same 🤷♂️ or is it a knock the locomotion out like is best on elephant 🤷♂️( I don’t think so ) or a combination like on buff 🤷♂️or something else as these bears intrigue me a fair bit ( that’s follow up like in this example of quintas but still has similar traits to normal shots imo ) Looking forward if anyone wants to chew the fat & school me better on bears Cheers [/QUOTE]
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New .338 Cal-210gr Hammer HHT
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